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Post by BulgarianMenace on Feb 9, 2011 16:48:17 GMT -5
Rofl at religious fundamentalism. They're like little kids who unyielding believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy and other such fairy tales. It's pointless to argue with children. The only way they will realize how ridiculous the notions of god and religion are is if they grow up (and many people never do).
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Post by Taco on Feb 9, 2011 17:53:27 GMT -5
I may be a kid, but i assure you when i 'grow up' my belief will only be stronger.  Everyday I never cease to be amazed. Answer me this: Is it better to live for Jesus and then die to find out it was all false and there is no such place as heaven or hell or to live without Jesus in your heart and then die to find out it was all true? Awfully risky don't you think? What have you to lose? |
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Post by BulgarianMenace on Feb 10, 2011 2:53:20 GMT -5
Much better to live without jesus and find out it was all true. At least that way I don't waste even a minute more of my time on bullshit than I have to. Living for jesus to find out it was all false - what a waste of your life. And anyway it is possible to live a good life without believing in god or following a religion, and if there turns out there is a god he should care a lot more about whether you lived a good life, not whether you worshiped him. In fact, it would mean more because it would mean you chose to be good without the threats OR promises of religion to motivate you. Much more authentic.
But of course, you're free to believe in whatever delusions you choose. Long as it don't affect me I don't give a fuck what you choose to believe.
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Post by Taco on Feb 10, 2011 9:40:31 GMT -5
Much better to live without jesus and find out it was all true. And then spend an eternity in hell? Oh yeah thats much better!  Answer the question logically instead of just hanging onto your own ideas still. What would be the SMART thing to do? You only get one life..and trust me its just the dress rehearsal. In this life you decide where you want to spend the rest of it. Jesus answered, ''I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'' John 14:6 But if the Bible is true, wouldn't it All be true? everything the Bible has said? In that case why don't we test the accuracy of the Bible. And by the way, how many times have you read the Bible? hmm?? Scientific Accuracy Striking evidence of divine inspiration is found in the fact that many of the principles of modern science were recorded as facts of nature in the Bible long before scientist confirmed them experimentally. A sampling of these would include: Roundness of the earth (Isaiah 40:22) Almost infinite extent of the sidereal universe (Isaiah 55:9) Law of conservation of mass and energy (II Peter 3:7) Hydrologic cycle (Ecclesiastes 1:7) Vast number of stars (Jeremiah 33:22) Law of increasing entropy (Psalm 102:25-27) Paramount importance of blood in life processes (Leviticus 17:11) Atmospheric circulation (Ecclesiastes 1:6) Gravitational field (Job 26:7) and many others. These are not stated in the technical jargon of modern science, of course, but in terms of the basic world of man's everyday experience; nevertheless, they are completely in accord with the most modern scientific facts. Prophecy For example, Daniel the prophet predicted in about 538 BC (Daniel 9:24-27) that Christ would come as Israel's promised Savior and Prince 483 years after the Persian emperor would give the Jews authority to rebuild Jerusalem, which was then in ruins. This was clearly and definitely fulfilled, hundreds of years later. There are extensive prophecies dealing with individual nations and cities and with the course of history in general, all of which have been literally fulfilled. More than 300 prophecies were fulfilled by Christ Himself at His first coming. Other prophecies deal with the spread of Christianity, as well as various false religions, and many other subjects. Yes, the Bible is reliable. The original writings of the Bible have been lost. But before they were lost, they were copied. These copies were incredibly accurate, very meticulous, and very precise. The people who copied them were extremely dedicated to God and their copying tasks. They took great care when copying the original manuscripts. This copying method is so exact, and so precise, that the New Testament alone is considered to be 99.5% textually pure. This means that of the 6000 Greek copies (the New Testament was written in Greek), and the additional 21,000 copies in other languages, there is only one half of 1% variation. Of this very slight number, the great majority of the variants are easily corrected by comparing them to other copies that don't have the "typos" or by simply reading the context. You should know that copying mistakes occur in such ways as word repetition, spelling, or a single word omission due to the copyist missing something when moving his eyes from one line to another. The variants are very minor. Nothing affects doctrinal truth and the words and deeds of Christ are superbly reliably transmitted to us. The science of studying ancient literature and its accuracy of transmission to is called historicity. The Bible is so exceedingly accurate in its transmission from the originals to the present copies, that if you compare it to any other ancient writing, the Bible is light years ahead in terms of number of manuscripts and accuracy. If the Bible were to be discredited as being unreliable, then it would be necessary to discard the writings of Homer, Plato, and Aristotle as also unreliable since they are far far less well preserved than the Bible. I can go on for days. |
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Post by Joppi on Feb 10, 2011 10:03:39 GMT -5
I may be a kid, but i assure you when i 'grow up' my belief will only be stronger. Everyday I never cease to be amazed. Answer me this: Is it better to live for Jesus and then die to find out it was all false and there is no such place as heaven or hell or to live without Jesus in your heart and then die to find out it was all true? Awfully risky don't you think? What have you to lose? And what if you find out when you die that you actually should have been worshiping Allah? Or the Hindu gods? Or Zeus? Or something else? Pascal's Wager would only be reasonable if the only two choices of belief were explicit atheism or Christianity. However, that isn't the case. You believe in only one more god than I do, so we both have a pretty similar chance of being wrong. On the other hand, I'd contend that, if there is a divine creator who set up a system of reward/punishment based on how you live your life, he'd probably, as BM said, care more about you being a good person in general than simply believing in him. It just never made sense to me why an all-powerful being would care so much about you believing in him, and yet not give you any real evidence of his existence. Especially when some people never have the chance to learn about Christianity and convert to it. |
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Post by Taco on Feb 10, 2011 10:38:39 GMT -5
It isn't just believing in Him. Even the demons believe in him...and shudder.
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Post by Joppi on Feb 10, 2011 10:45:52 GMT -5
Why did I just imagine a ringwraith saying that about Sauron?
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Post by BURNZILLA47 on Feb 10, 2011 11:07:39 GMT -5
However well meaning the original authors of the bible were at some obscure point in history, the message has been twisted and corrupted over time by men who seek to control others. This is how a simple message such as "Do unto others" became a list of rules on how to conduct such behavior. All religions invariably foster the theme of selectivity, whereby the adherence to these rules or saying these prayers or performing these ceremonies will somehow preserve for the faithful some kind of special treatment here and in the afterlife. If any one of these religions is right, it means that god is playing favorites with children, which is a questionable parenting tactic for one reputed to be so wise. If you think of God as a source of light and religion as a prism, then you get a bunch of different colors. Everyone disagrees on which color truly represents God yet each color only shows a filtered version. I'm just saying that if we removed the prism, we would all see the same color (which is much more illustrious than any one color) and humans will have one less thing to kill each other over.There is no "right" religion. Only ignorant or enlightend practices.
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Post by Taco on Feb 10, 2011 11:59:38 GMT -5
That is only a possibility, and i highly doubt it. But whatever the belief, religion, or what have you, it does take Faith
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Post by BURNZILLA47 on Feb 10, 2011 13:21:19 GMT -5
That religion has been corrupted by man is not just a possibility. Nor is it speculation or opinion. It is what has happened. This is obvious to anyone who is not religious. On the subject of faith, it can only be present in the face of uncertainty. Does one need faith to acknowledge that the moon exists? The problem with faith is that it is rooted in hope and fear, which are closely related. Hope contains the subtle fear that what you hope for will not come to pass, and fear contains the subtle hope that what you fear will not come to pass. To remain faithful, we must place our lives at the mercy of hope and fear. As humans continue to evolve intellectually and spiritually, we will eventually divorce from our psyche, the primitive fear based concept that we must appease the gods to avoid punishment. This is beginning to happen now although planetary awareness and enlightenment is not something we can expect in our lifetime. But eventually we humans will have a better idea as to what god actually is and we will view religious concepts the way we now view ideas such as a flat earth or moon made of cheese.
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Post by BulgarianMenace on Feb 10, 2011 15:45:07 GMT -5
props to both burnz and joppi for their spot on commentary. Particularly liked joppi's reference to pascal's wager, and burnzilla's prism analogy.
Sorry taco, you've been shut down, and for once I didn't have to do it! Best to walk away now with your religion tucked between your legs (if you must hold on to it still).
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Post by Taco on Feb 10, 2011 16:44:53 GMT -5
Do you KNOW that is that what happened? No. Nobody can. So until further notice, we must assume it has not been altered.
You will only hear the truth that sounds right to your ears...
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Post by BulgarianMenace on Feb 10, 2011 17:05:45 GMT -5
You'll "KNOW" when you get to the middle ages in your history class. The rampant corruption and hypocrisy in the church, especially the vatican, is well documented historical fact.
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Post by BURNZILLA47 on Feb 10, 2011 17:09:38 GMT -5
I do know thats what happened because there is obvious proof. If it isn't obvious to someone it's not because the are unable to see it, rather unwilling.
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Post by BURNZILLA47 on Feb 10, 2011 17:19:35 GMT -5
Where the Christian religion is supposedly established in the name of Christ, it is hardly based on the teachings of Jesus. Look to the lifestyle of many at the heads of these religions.
The Pope lives in grandeur, surrounded by gold and silken robes, servants, and guaranteed comfort throughout retirement. What happened to the message of Jesus, about a rich man reaching heaven?
The Catholic church is one of the wealthiest entities in the world, yet it is supported by those most poverty-stricken. What happened to the message of Jesus to give unto the poor, share and share alike?
The Mormon and Catholic churches, both based on the sayings of Jesus, use extreme threats to control and dictate to their masses. Excommunication, which is plainly delivered as eternal damnation to the fires of hell. What happened to the message of Jesus to forgive? Let he who is without sin be the first to cast a stone, etc. These are just a few examples of what I mean by obvious proof that the message has been twisted by men who seek to control others for their own benefit.
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Everyday I never cease to be amazed. 
