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Post by Crusader_878 on Dec 8, 2009 21:54:18 GMT -5
That's how I work. Nobody needs to know the details of our agreements or anything else for that matter. At least till after the battles. That is Bull....... So your clan can quit because only one person in the other clan know all the rules...........[/quote Do you honestly think the other clan won't share whatever terms we agree on with each other? You're an idiot and a liar.
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Post by Crusader_878 on Dec 8, 2009 21:55:15 GMT -5
Uh, or we could just do it in this thread and get more opinions than just yours and mine. I don't see why the rules have to be private. Fine, it doesn't matter. We will discuss the terms in this thread.
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Post by Crusader_878 on Dec 8, 2009 21:55:47 GMT -5
I think it's better for them to be public so the community can come closer to having a standardized set of rules for clan matches. Indeed...
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Post by ALM1GHTY_AMACED on Dec 8, 2009 22:38:15 GMT -5
I don't know what kind of stupid rule you're going to make up now crusader...... You really need to think of something confusing to be able to quit on this clan fight............
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Post by BulgarianMenace on Dec 8, 2009 22:44:34 GMT -5
amaced, please get out of this thread. Keep your fighting in the other threads, we don't need it here.
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Post by ALM1GHTY_AMACED on Dec 8, 2009 23:05:17 GMT -5
amaced, please get out of this thread. Keep your fighting in the other threads, we don't need it here. sorry BM......... I won't do it again..............
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Post by BulgarianMenace on Dec 9, 2009 0:45:14 GMT -5
thank you
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Post by Crusader_878 on Dec 9, 2009 1:35:36 GMT -5
Up for some matches? Here's our proposed rule-set. We'll start with this and then take your input to create the official rules. *Please note that it is the responsibility of each clan to make sure that all their participating players know the rules. There will be no excuses for rule infractions even if the player didn't know*Game Rules-No heroes in any mode. If the hero enters the match and influences the match in any way, then the overall results of the match are invalidated (unless the offending team loses). Further infractions result in immediate round (not war) loss. -We'll play best 2/3 for each mode (except HTDM), and whoever wins 2 of the modes is the winner. If one team wins two modes in a row, the third is not played. The first mode will be chosen by popular vote in the chat, and further modes will be chosen by the team who lost the last mode. -Trolls/Ents and Horses/Wargs are allowed only if both teams have equal access to them. The legality of these will be disclosed in the chat before the match starts. -All ballistae/catapults can be used. -The Oliphaunt is explicitly banned and cannot be moved from its original position. -All out-of-maps and glitch-walls are banned. First offense loses the match. -The team that lost the last match chooses the side they play on in the next match. First teams will be negotiated in the chat. -If one of your members disconnects in the middle of the battle, the battle goes on as usual, but no additional matches will be played until your team has a full 8 members (unless the down-team agrees to play on). Stage Rules-The first stage in each mode will be the first legal stage in the EA server rotation. There are two options for the next stages, so we'll see which one everyone wants. A) Further stages will be chosen by counterpick, which means that the losing team chooses another legal stage that will be played next. Stages between will be "skipped" by the losing team winning without any resistance (obviously, this win does not count). (This lends a nice strategic element to the match, but it could also take longer. It tends to be fine if everyone knows what's going on, though) or B) Every legal stage in the EA rotation will be played until one team has won the mode. Illegal stages will be skipped. (Quicker and simpler, but doesn't have the same strategic element that counterpicking does) Banned Stage ListMinas Tirith- Conquest Pellenor Fields- Conquest Mines of Moria- TDM Isengard- TDM Shire- CTR Pellenor Fields- CTR Chat Rules-Do not enter any server until it is announced in the chat. -One main chat will hold the 16 players participating in the current game. It is THE CLAN LEADER'S responsibility to ensure that yhis entire clan is in the chat. Any infractions caused by a member not in the chat will still count against you. -You may have a chat open for your own clan's use -When in the server, do not join a team until instructed to in the chat. This allows for disputes to be settled and substitutes to be put in. If you join the game, then the Warm-Up starts, and the game clock will start winding down.-If the match has started due to people entering the server and no one in the chat is telling everyone to stop playing, then the match will begin as soon as the warm-up is over. This happens whether or not your whole team is ready. However, if your team does start when people in the chat are telling you to stop, the match result is invalidated. Continued breaking of this rule will lead to disqualification of the team and loss of that "mode" (not the whole war). As far as the date goes, we'd like to have it on the weekend from Friday December 18th to Sunday December 20th and the times can be negotiated. Unfortunately, we can't play any time earlier than that date. We should be able to negotiate something after that, though (holidays may get in the way, though). So, just tell us when you'll be available and we'll hammer something out. Your terms are fair, however, I'd like to disallow trolls/ents and horses/wargs. If not both, then the latter. I'd also like to disallow mics. All ballistic and catapult projections should be disallowed. Those are my amendments to your terms. I anticipate your response. Modification: The battle cannot take place this weekend ending 12/13/09, because I have a birthday party to attend on 12/12/09 and the following day I have to begin my Christmas shopping.
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Post by BulgarianMenace on Dec 9, 2009 1:39:45 GMT -5
I'd like some reasoning to back your requests, if you would.
As to the date, we were thinking the weekend of the 18-20th.
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Post by Crusader_878 on Dec 9, 2009 1:41:40 GMT -5
I'd like some reasoning to back your requests, if you would. As to the date, we were thinking the weekend of the 18-20th. Your party gave no such reasoning, why should mine? Modification: Week ending 18-20th sounds reasonable. But my clan and I may have plans due to the holidays. I will notify you as soon as I'm certain of our availability.
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Post by BulgarianMenace on Dec 9, 2009 1:43:09 GMT -5
Well you don't have to be obnoxious about it.
typing up reasoning, please hold.
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Post by Crusader_878 on Dec 9, 2009 1:46:30 GMT -5
Well you don't have to be obnoxious about it. typing up reasoning, please hold. I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to be obnoxious or rude. I apologize.
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Post by BulgarianMenace on Dec 9, 2009 2:18:42 GMT -5
- no heroes: heroes are rarely balanced, so one side will have an unfair advantage. Also, heroes can create a slippery slope with the winning team getting an insurmountable advantage.
- 2/3 modes, 2/3 games per mode: There a 4 modes, but because 4 is an even number and opens up the possibility for a tie 3 is preferable. Htdm is the best mode to drop because the due to the unique nature of hero classes one side may have an unfair advantage. As to best 2/3 games for each mode, we think it is preferable to having only 1 game since more repetitions usually gets you more accurate results (as in, the worse team might win every once in a while, but in overall the better team will prevail). By that reasoning 3 games seems even too little, but they take a long time and most people don't want to commit half their day to play any more than that.
- Trolls/Ents and Horses/Wargs are allowed only if both teams have equal access to them: While there are slight differences between horses/wargs and ents/trolls, we feel that they aren't great enough to pose an unfair advantage to either side provided that both sides have access to them.
-ballistae/catapults: both teams can use them and they aren't overpowered (except maybe the ones in pellenor conquest, that's on our banned stages list, albeit a different reason). There's no reason they should be banned.
-no Oliphaunt: I'm not sure since joppi put this one in, but I would guess that it is because good team doesn't have access to an equivalent...vehicle(?).
-All out-of-maps and glitch-walls are banned: these glitches can be used to stall (most notably in ctr, but it's possible to do the same in tdm) or to get to unfair positions (like glitching in a wall to attack but not be able to get attacked).
-The team that lost the last match chooses the side they play on in the next match. First teams will be negotiated in the chat: normally the for the first game teams would be picked with something impartial, like a coin flip, but since that's not possible online, we'll just have to negotiate when it comes to it. After that, we feel that the loser of the last round should get to choose what side they want to play in the next game to maybe give themselves a better position and a chance to get a win back (although we tried to eliminate any maps which give either side an obvious unfair starting position).
--If one of your members disconnects in the middle of the battle, the battle goes on as usual, but no additional matches will be played until your team has a full 8 members (unless the down-team agrees to play on): unfortunately with online play people get disconnected. We can't stop in the middle of a game every time that happens. It would be impractical. Plus, the timer would keep running, so you would have to restart entirely, which is, again, impractical. So, you keep playing and either the person who dc'd will get back in asap, or you might be stuck with a random. After the game is done we can pause and straighten everything out, make sure everyone is in the server.
- The first stage in each mode will be the first legal stage in the EA server rotation: it's impartial and easy.
Personally, I would prefer we struck stages from a neutral stage list until only one was left and played on that. However, joppi feels that's too much hassle and he's running this particular war so this is his proposed solution.
- stage rules: Joppi already explained these pretty well. I'll just say that I prefer counterpicking since I like the added strategy element.
- Banned Stages
Minas Tirith- Conquest: evil starts out with a troll and much closer to the cps. Pellenor Fields- Conquest: good can get 2 cps in the time evil gets 1. Mines of Moria- TDM: camping on the top ledge is a potentially broken strategy and can stall the match; mage in a shield guards the lever, archers stop anyone from getting up if they aren't in a shield, and if they are the lever just gets pulled again making it virtually impossible to get up. Ladders are really not viable option for getting up. And evil does not have a spawn up top while good does. Isengard- TDM: same as above, except this time it is the ledge at the top of the evil spawn. Shire- CTR: uh, I'm not really sure. It might be because with horses good can get to the ring faster. Actually, noting this I would be ok with banning horses/warge in ctr only because good can always reach the ring first if they have them. Pellenor Fields- CTR: Joppi's reasoning is that it is much easier for evil to score here because of the way the environment is set up. For more details ask him.
Chat Rules
-Do not enter any server until it is announced in the chat: We don't want any randoms getting in, so it is best to coordinate and all join the server at the same time, minimizing the chance a random will slip in.
-One main chat will hold the 16 players participating in the current game. It is THE CLAN LEADER'S responsibility to ensure that yhis entire clan is in the chat. Any infractions caused by a member not in the chat will still count against you.: basically, so everyone knows what's going on and things can be coordinated better.
-You may have a chat open for your own clan's use: not like this could be monitored anyway, lol, but you should also have somewhere to discuss strategy without the other team seeing.
-When in the server, do not join a team until instructed to in the chat. This allows for disputes to be settled and substitutes to be put in. If you join the game, then the Warm-Up starts, and the game clock will start winding down: what joppi said.
-If the match has started due to people entering the server and no one in the chat is telling everyone to stop playing, then the match will begin as soon as the warm-up is over. This happens whether or not your whole team is ready. However, if your team does start when people in the chat are telling you to stop, the match result is invalidated. Continued breaking of this rule will lead to disqualification of the team and loss of that "mode" (not the whole war): in combination with the last rule, once we join sides the assumption is that everyone is ready. If no one says anything the game will start, and once it does you can't stop midway through (otherwise teams could cheat by saying they weren't ready and forcing a restart if they see they are losing). However, if there is a problem and it is brought up BEFORE the game starts, then we can still stop and sort things out.
As far as the date goes, we'd like to have it on the weekend from Friday December 18th to Sunday December 20th and the times can be negotiated. Unfortunately, we can't play any time earlier than that date. We should be able to negotiate something after that, though (holidays may get in the way, though). So, just tell us when you'll be available and we'll hammer something out. : um, yeah. The date needs to be good for both sides, so let us know what works pretty much. Weekends are, generally, preferable as people have work and school and whatnot during the weekdays.
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Post by rizen33 on Dec 9, 2009 3:23:04 GMT -5
- Trolls/Ents and Horses/Wargs are allowed only if both teams have equal access to them I agree about the horses and wargs since they're basically identical; however, I'm not in complete agreement about using trolls and ents, due to the ease of being able to kill an ent with a scout versus the troll. On the other hand, it may be best to allow trolls and ents for practical reasons. By this I mean, just in case a single clan member forgets this rule and gets into an ent/troll or if there's a single random person who joins (due to someone getting disconnected or if not all 8 members of a clan are present) and may possibly get into a troll/ent. Also for simplicity sake, by basically allowing everything to a large degree (horses, ents, catapults, etc.) except heroes this keeps things simple and therefore easier for all clan members to remember the rules. About mics, I wonder if Crusader feels more of our clan members will have mics and this will give us an unfair advantage? I don't speak for our entire clan, but if this is his reason I personally wouldn't have a problem agreeing to his term so that we can more fully level the playing field (this would also help prevent any potential excuses/"johns"). All the other rules sounds good to me, thanks for taking time to post them Joppi, and BM for explaining the purposes for each one.
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Post by Joppi on Dec 9, 2009 6:54:14 GMT -5
@trolls and ents
This is just something I throw out there for every clan war. In all honesty, I couldn't care less whether they're legal or not. I don't think their role in the game is that unbalanced, but I can see why some people wouldn't like having them around. I'm perfectly fine with banning them if you honestly don't want them.
@horses and wargs
As long as they're available to both teams, I can't really see any problems with them. They only have one really powerful attack and it can only really be used to devastating effect in CTR where everyone is clumped together. Even then, both teams should have equal access to them. They're not hard to counter, either, since one archer can keep like three people off their horses for a while.
@ballistae/catapults
Again, I can't really see the issue here. They aren't that powerful, both teams usually have equal access to them, and they're easily countered by an archer, or destroyed if they're causing too many problems.
@mics
I guess I can see the problem here... I'm assuming that no one in your clan has a mic? I feel like, if you have a mic, you should be able to use it, though.
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