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Post by yash3ahuja on Feb 7, 2010 12:05:41 GMT -5
I don't think your getting my point. First, there still are witches around. Second, if the people find it wrong, they'll move away from it on their own. There was no second witch trials. The human way of thinking is constantly changing, there will always be thieves, and if your getting your hand cut off, you know the risk. Ignorance of the law, is not a defence. I think, the only way it would be bullshit, would be if they cut off the hand of someone who was disabled.
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Post by redwurd on Feb 7, 2010 14:11:36 GMT -5
how about someone who is innocent? Or if the thief had a valid reason like his family is starving and out of complete desperation stole a loaf of bread?
Some places in the world also carry out be-headings, stoning, and female genital mutilation. And so far they have been doing those things for hundreds (if not thousands) of years. Being born into a culture that carries out such things doesn't make it right for them. Morals and Intelligence, and common decency should transcend borders no?
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Post by BulgarianMenace on Feb 7, 2010 16:42:39 GMT -5
no. There is no standard for morality. We have no more legitimate claim to having the "right" set of morals than anyone else. As such, we have no place telling other cultures what they can and can't do. Some of the things they do may seem wrong in our eyes, but you can be sure that the same thing applies in reverse, and we certainly wouldn't want them changing what we do.
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Post by redwurd on Feb 7, 2010 19:41:20 GMT -5
I realize the reverse could be said, & yes to impose 'Western Culture' ideals upon the rest of the world is not our place, nor should it be.
I guess what I foolishly believe in is a Charter of Rights for all of Mankind to adhere to. To which we can all treat each other with decency and respect. The United Nations though far from perfect is the best we have at trying to harbour and create Peace throughout the world. But with issues of: famine, poverty, lack of structural government, education, slavery, religion, environmental climate crisis, tyranny etc etc...... it just seems that much more impossible to attain.
The 'Prime Directive" (from Star Trek - is a Star Fleet rule that states: that there be no interference with the natural development of any 'primitive' society, also forbids any efforts to improve of change in any way the natural course of such a society, even if that change is well intentioned) should it really be followed?
In recent times the whole world sat and did nothing while genocides in Rwanda and the continuing hell in Darfur are being carried out. The earthquake in Haiti where up to 200 000 people are feared to be dead and the chaos to rebuild that troubled country. Afghanistan was under the Taliban for years and unspeakable acts were carried out on their citizens such as teachers being imprisoned, females prevented from getting an education, other religions outlawed & historical religious artifacts were destroyed and yet nothing was done until one fateful day.....
What I'm trying to say is that when do we as a democratic society in the Western world, with all the riches and resources and the plenty that we have, when and if we witness a wrong do we step in? Or just let be. And yes we have to pick & choose our 'fights' wisely, like we're not going to go to war with China over Tibet anytime soon, (FREE TIBET!!!).
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights "whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world." should be carried out to the best of our abilities.
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Post by hanzrimer on Feb 7, 2010 22:36:07 GMT -5
Yes Yash there are still wicthes, they hang out with the vampires, werewolves and Frankenstein monster (people who practice wiccan and drink blood aren't witches and vampires the are just weirdos)
You think piss poor people in saudi Arabia could just leave if they want to? like Red said what if their family is starving? seems like a harsh punishment for such a petty crime. i also think it's moronic to make your population handicapped by chopping off limbs.
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Post by redwurd on Feb 8, 2010 6:19:20 GMT -5
"Yes Yash there are still wicthes, they hang out with the vampires, werewolves and Frankenstein monster (people who practice wiccan and drink blood aren't witches and vampires the are just weirdos)"
"Wicca is a recently reconstructed Neopagan religion based largely of an ancient, pre-Christian Celtic religion. Many Wiccans use the word "Witch" as a synonym for "Wiccan". Others have abandoned the term Witch; they feel that centuries of religious propaganda have given the term such a negative meaning that it cannot possibly be salvaged. There is a common belief among Wiccans that to abandon the word is to defame the memories of the tens of thousands of Witches and other heretics who were accused of "Witchcraft," were individually tortured and executed during the Christian "Burning Times", circa 1450 to 1792 CE. "
um people who practice Wicca don't drink blood, and tho some may seem eccentric and a little odd, I would hardly call them weirdos.
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Post by hanzrimer on Feb 8, 2010 11:08:15 GMT -5
the blood drinking was directed towards people who drink blood and call themselves vampires. I would consider a wiccan weird, just like I would consider anyone who is that delved in their religion. It's weird to me.
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Post by redwurd on Feb 8, 2010 11:42:09 GMT -5
sorry read it wrong Hanz
a quote from Edain McCoy, that pretty much sums up the religion Wicca for me is:
"When one defines oneself as Pagan, it means she or he follows an earth or nature religion, one that sees the divine manifest in all creation. The cycles of nature are our holy day, the earth is our temple, its plants and creatures our partners and teachers. We worship a Deity that is both male and female, a mother Goddess and a father God, who together created all that is, was, or will be. We respect life, cherish the free will of sentient beings, and accept the sacredness of all creation."
Native American Spirituality is another example of respect and holding Mother Earth as sacred.
"If you take the Christian bible and put it out in the wind and the rain, soon the paper on which the words are printed will disintegrate and the words will be gone. Our bible IS the wind and the rain." Carol McGrath
Sounds like the first environmentalists, and that's not weird at all for me.
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Post by hanzrimer on Feb 8, 2010 12:06:47 GMT -5
okay fine, if you put it that way. Either way they aren't witches in the sense that they are supernatural beings, and when I say" witch" thats what I mean.
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Post by redwurd on Feb 8, 2010 14:36:19 GMT -5
well they're not green with long noses & warts on the end of it, wearing pointy hats and buckled shoes, and don't go around saying "I'll get you my pretty! and you're little dog too!" As that stereotype seems to pop into peoples minds when the word witch is mentioned, lol
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Post by jonathan1515 on Feb 8, 2010 17:21:00 GMT -5
no. There is no standard for morality. We have no more legitimate claim to having the "right" set of morals than anyone else. As such, we have no place telling other cultures what they can and can't do. Some of the things they do may seem wrong in our eyes, but you can be sure that the same thing applies in reverse, and we certainly wouldn't want them changing what we do. So am i right to say from your point of view BM, that murder is right well because let's say that's just my perspective. So it's all just relative morality. |
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Post by hanzrimer on Feb 8, 2010 18:26:40 GMT -5
no. There is no standard for morality. We have no more legitimate claim to having the "right" set of morals than anyone else. As such, we have no place telling other cultures what they can and can't do. Some of the things they do may seem wrong in our eyes, but you can be sure that the same thing applies in reverse, and we certainly wouldn't want them changing what we do. So am i right to say from your point of view BM, that murder is right well because let's say that's just my perspective. So it's all just relative morality. See that's what I'm trying to say. I think some things are clearly wrong, IE murder, rap, killing a 2 ton Rhino for it's horn. These things I don't and won't accept no matter what culture does it. |
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Post by BulgarianMenace on Feb 8, 2010 18:30:47 GMT -5
Pretty much. Morals ARE relative. What is "right" and "wrong" is defined by the society you live in. But you can't infringe on another nation's sovereignty and tell them that their morals are wrong and try to force your morals within their borders.
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Post by redwurd on Feb 9, 2010 10:02:50 GMT -5
No you can't infringe upon another nation's sovereignty and dictate what morals they should and shouldn't have. Even though over the course of history, some governments have funded & or orchestrated coups, set up puppet dictators and have invaded countries. However, through diplomacy, trade, the world getting that much smaller with technology, and the ideals and fancies of western culture can influence or begin to plant a seed of democracy (the recent hope of reform in Iran was brutally squashed and the full extent has yet to be reported). China just recently allowed the music of the Beatles (ya 40 years after the fact) to be allowed, so perhaps the message "All You Need Is Love" can work its magic and human rights, executions and Tibet will all be set to rights. just working some magic..... ![]() <a href="http://s773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/redwurd/?action=view¤t=donald-rumsfeld-meets-saddam-hussei.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/redwurd/donald-rumsfeld-meets-saddam-hussei.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>[/img] Attachments:
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Post by BulgarianMenace on Feb 9, 2010 11:31:22 GMT -5
I didn't say it doesn't happen. All I'm saying is that no one country or peoples can claim that their morals are any more valid or true than anyone else's.
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