Which would you believe in more?

[[ROJOES]ronjons]

Jan 29, 2010 14:44:39 GMT -5 hanzrimer said:

"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor

TV's had that job for the last 50 years.

[jonathan1515]

Well just saw this topic so i'll offer my words.

First, the original question. The bible is the word of god. In the book of John it says. 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.

Now I'll comment on some things that have been said before.

First about the numerous number of different denominations of Christianity. There are many different viewpoints about different aspects of the bible. Certain people interpret the bible different ways (either from mistranslation from the original greek, or just the type of writing invovled). Each denomination may have those slight different beliefs, however we all believe that Jesus Christ came and died for our sins, and through him we can have a relationship with God the father. So each different denomination is still Christian as they are "followers of Christ".

Here's also a video,and it's called Did Science kill God?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8xStPfP4eU

[flee14]

GOD:
God is a deity in theistic and deistic religions and other belief systems, representing either the sole deity in monotheism, or a principal deity in polytheism.
God is most often conceived of as the supernatural creator and overseer of the universe. Theologians have ascribed a variety of attributes to the many different conceptions of God. The most common among these include omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, omnibenevolence (perfect goodness), divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence. God has also been conceived as being incorporeal, a personal being, the source of all moral obligation, and the "greatest conceivable existent".These attributes were all supported to varying degrees by the early Jewish, Christian and Muslim theologian philosophers, including Maimonides,Augustine of Hippo,and Al-Ghazali,respectively. Many notable medieval philosophers and modern philosophers developed arguments for the existence of God. Many notable philosophers and intellectuals have, by contrast, developed arguments against the existence of God.


BIBLE:
The Bible refers to one of two closely related religious texts central to Judaism and Christianity—the Hebrew or Christian sacred scriptures respectively.

The Bible is the main source for the history of ancient Israel. Although it is not a history book in the modern sense, the books of Joshua through Second Chronicles are the works of ancient Israelite historians. The Bible historians presented a picture of ancient Israel based on information that they viewed as historically true. Like modern historians, biblical writers sometimes provided "historical" explanations or background information of the events they describe.

Judaism recognizes a single set of canonical books known as the Tanakh, also called Hebrew Bible, traditionally divided into three parts: the Torah ("teaching" or "law"), the Nevi'im ("prophets"), and the Ketuvim ("writings").

The Bible as used by Christians is divided into the Old Testament and the New Testament. The canonical composition of the Old Testament is in dispute between Christian groups: Protestants hold the books of the Hebrew Bible to be canonical and include them in what they call the Old Testament. Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox additionally consider the deuterocanonical books, a group of Jewish books, to be a canonical part of their Old Testament. The New Testament is comprised of the Gospels ("good news"), the Acts of the Apostles, the Epistles (letters), and the Book of Revelation.

[hanzrimer]

Jan 30, 2010 14:46:17 GMT -5 flee14 said:

GOD:
God is a deity in theistic and deistic religions and other belief systems, representing either the sole deity in monotheism, or a principal deity in polytheism.
God is most often conceived of as the supernatural creator and overseer of the universe. Theologians have ascribed a variety of attributes to the many different conceptions of God. The most common among these include omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, omnibenevolence (perfect goodness), divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence. God has also been conceived as being incorporeal, a personal being, the source of all moral obligation, and the "greatest conceivable existent".These attributes were all supported to varying degrees by the early Jewish, Christian and Muslim theologian philosophers, including Maimonides,Augustine of Hippo,and Al-Ghazali,respectively. Many notable medieval philosophers and modern philosophers developed arguments for the existence of God. Many notable philosophers and intellectuals have, by contrast, developed arguments against the existence of God.


BIBLE:
The Bible refers to one of two closely related religious texts central to Judaism and Christianity—the Hebrew or Christian sacred scriptures respectively.

The Bible is the main source for the history of ancient Israel. Although it is not a history book in the modern sense, the books of Joshua through Second Chronicles are the works of ancient Israelite historians. The Bible historians presented a picture of ancient Israel based on information that they viewed as historically true. Like modern historians, biblical writers sometimes provided "historical" explanations or background information of the events they describe.

Judaism recognizes a single set of canonical books known as the Tanakh, also called Hebrew Bible, traditionally divided into three parts: the Torah ("teaching" or "law"), the Nevi'im ("prophets"), and the Ketuvim ("writings").

The Bible as used by Christians is divided into the Old Testament and the New Testament. The canonical composition of the Old Testament is in dispute between Christian groups: Protestants hold the books of the Hebrew Bible to be canonical and include them in what they call the Old Testament. Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox additionally consider the deuterocanonical books, a group of Jewish books, to be a canonical part of their Old Testament. The New Testament is comprised of the Gospels ("good news"), the Acts of the Apostles, the Epistles (letters), and the Book of Revelation.

k....think we all got the question and are way past defining what the two things are, to be blunt, whats your point?

[flee14]

Jan 30, 2010 22:26:26 GMT -5 hanzrimer said:

Jan 30, 2010 14:46:17 GMT -5 flee14 said:

GOD:
God is a deity in theistic and deistic religions and other belief systems, representing either the sole deity in monotheism, or a principal deity in polytheism.
God is most often conceived of as the supernatural creator and overseer of the universe. Theologians have ascribed a variety of attributes to the many different conceptions of God. The most common among these include omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, omnibenevolence (perfect goodness), divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence. God has also been conceived as being incorporeal, a personal being, the source of all moral obligation, and the "greatest conceivable existent".These attributes were all supported to varying degrees by the early Jewish, Christian and Muslim theologian philosophers, including Maimonides,Augustine of Hippo,and Al-Ghazali,respectively. Many notable medieval philosophers and modern philosophers developed arguments for the existence of God. Many notable philosophers and intellectuals have, by contrast, developed arguments against the existence of God.


BIBLE:
The Bible refers to one of two closely related religious texts central to Judaism and Christianity—the Hebrew or Christian sacred scriptures respectively.

The Bible is the main source for the history of ancient Israel. Although it is not a history book in the modern sense, the books of Joshua through Second Chronicles are the works of ancient Israelite historians. The Bible historians presented a picture of ancient Israel based on information that they viewed as historically true. Like modern historians, biblical writers sometimes provided "historical" explanations or background information of the events they describe.

Judaism recognizes a single set of canonical books known as the Tanakh, also called Hebrew Bible, traditionally divided into three parts: the Torah ("teaching" or "law"), the Nevi'im ("prophets"), and the Ketuvim ("writings").

The Bible as used by Christians is divided into the Old Testament and the New Testament. The canonical composition of the Old Testament is in dispute between Christian groups: Protestants hold the books of the Hebrew Bible to be canonical and include them in what they call the Old Testament. Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox additionally consider the deuterocanonical books, a group of Jewish books, to be a canonical part of their Old Testament. The New Testament is comprised of the Gospels ("good news"), the Acts of the Apostles, the Epistles (letters), and the Book of Revelation.

k....think we all got the question and are way past defining what the two things are, to be blunt, whats your point?

i'm just telling you lot what it means.

[[ROJOES]ronjons]

Good egg points will be awarded for brief posts

[redwurd]

thoughts on religion, scenes from Bill Maher's movie Religulous

Probably the coolest Father around Padre Reginald Foster






Richard Dawkins on CBC the Hour


Some quotes on Religion:
"The so-called Christian nations are the most enlightened and progressive... but in spite of their religion, not because of it. The Church has opposed every innovation and discovery form the day of Galileo down to our own time, when the uses of anesthetic in childbirth was regarded as a sin because it avoided the biblical curse pronounced against Eve. And every step in astronomy ever taken has been opposed by bigotry and superstition. The Greeks surpassed us in artistic culture and in architecture five hundred years before Christian religion was born." - Mark Twain

"During many ages there were witches. The Bible said so. The Bible commanded that they should not be allowed to live. Therefore the Church, after doing its duty in but a lazy and indolent way for 800 years, gathered up its halters, thumbscrews, and firebrands, and set about its holy work in earnest. She worked hard at it night and day during nine centuries and imprisoned, tortured, hanged, and burned whole hordes and armies of witches, and washed the Christian world clean with their foul blood. Then it was discovered that there was no such thing as witches, and never had been. One does not know whether to laugh or to cry." - Mark Twain

"A man's ethical behaviour should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." - Albert Einstein

"Religion. It's given people hope in a world torn apart by religion."
-Jon Stewart

[hanzrimer]

Bill Maher is awesome, great movie.

[jonathan1515]

The anthropic factors

Did you know that scientists have identified over 130 finely tuned, precisely set factors, in the design of the universe and earth, that if even slightly changed, would make life on earth and even the existence of the universe impossible. These are known as anthropic factors. This has led many scientists to proclaim that it is as if the universe and earth knew we were coming, as if it was designed for us. Here are just a few on many, many quotes that acknowledge the purpose and design evident in the universe.

"There is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all....It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature's numbers to make the Universe....The impression of design is overwhelming". Paul Davies, British astrophysicist

"The laws [of physics] ... seem to be the product of exceedingly ingenious design... The universe must have a purpose". Paul Davies:

"I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing." Alan Sandage, winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy

"We are, by astronomical standards, a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances indicate the universe was created for man to live in." John O'Keefe, astronomer at NASA

"As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather, Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?" George Greenstein, astronomer

"If we need an atheist for a debate, I go to the philosophy department. The physics department isn't much use." Robert Griffiths

Well duh!!! The Word of God revealed thousands of years ago that God designed the earth to be inhabited.

Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

There is one truth, God's truth, and science is being dragged, kicking and screaming into conformity to that truth.

"For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries." Robert Jastrow


This is not my writing, it's an article that i got from another site.

[flee14]

Jan 31, 2010 11:15:36 GMT -5 hanzrimer said:

Bill Maher is awesome, great movie.

i agree.

[BulgarianMenace]

jon - all that is just looking at things through a flawed perspective. Those conditions weren't created for us, we (or "life") adapted to fit those conditions.

[czrk147]

wow nex didnt know id start a big debate just over what i said, i go to a Baptist school(im not a baptist) and i dont agree with what they all say, but the bible is the word of God so nex please more detail on what you meant. sure, theres pretty much a deity for every religion(given why muslims are running around dying for "Allah"), but Bible vs. God is a strange comparison. some people look at the Bible and say, what a bunch of crap, while others say LORD save me, I'm a condemned sinner. the Bible also states that not all will be saved, and God resides in a more 4th or 5th dimensional place, just depends on your perspective of the world and free will.

when i said 'i follow the Bible' in the other thread, i merely meant i believe in a seperation of state and church for that.

[jonathan1515]

Jan 31, 2010 14:11:21 GMT -5 BulgarianMenace said:

jon - all that is just looking at things through a flawed perspective. Those conditions weren't created for us, we (or "life") adapted to fit those conditions.

However life couldn't begin to exist with the set of constants that are in the universe. The universe would be radically different, and would not even be able to provide a base for life. Just look at our own solar system, life hasn't evolved on the other planets, due to the simple fact of their structure and distance from the sun. That is only 1 of the things that allows life to occur, and there are tons of these characteristics if changed that would not allow any life to occur.

Here's a quick quote from Stephen Hawking:
For example," Hawking writes, "if the electric charge of the electron had been only slightly different, stars would have been unable to burn hydrogen and helium, or else they would not have exploded... It seems clear that there are relatively few ranges of values for the numbers (for the constants) that would allow for development of any form of intelligent life. Most sets of values would give rise to universes that, although they might be very beautiful, would contain no one able to wonder at that beauty." Hawking then goes on to say that he can appreciate taking this as possible evidence of "a divine purpose in Creation and the choice of the laws of science (by God)"

[rizen33]

It's still somewhat of mystery about how we even arrived at this point in time. To me, religion or science still haven't provided a good answer. For instance, in science we're told that time began at the big bang; however before the big bang, the universe was shrinking. Therefore, there still were events and a time period before the big bang as well. So what happened before this time period (shrinking universe) and before that, and so on? Likewise, what happened before God created the universe and before that? I know that even Stephen Hawkins said that scientists can explain everything from the point of the big bang, but before this only God can answer. Another popular theory is the M-theory by quantum physicists. Part of the theory states that there are multiple simultaneous dimensions/realities and that time is an illusion. But when asked to elaborate, I haven't yet heard a good solid explanation.

Regarding science, evolution (changes over time) makes sense to me and I think there's strong evidence to support this theory. The only thing that's hard for me to accept is abiogenesis which states that life came from inanimate matter. Scientists have been able to create fairly complex forms from inanimate matter, but this is far from an alive conscious entity. I don't want to immediately jump to conclusions that God must have created life, but rather this simply means we don't truly know for certain since we currently don't have strong verifiable evidence to fully support this theory (abiogenesis).

From my studies and more importantly some personal experiences have lead me to believe there's more to life than what scientists have taught us. I remember one experience when I was 16. As I woke up, I heard clearly in my head "if you do good, you won't have to transmigrate." I didn't even know if this was really a word or what it meant. I grabbed my dictionary immediately and found out that transmigrate means to reincarnate. So not only was this an actual word "transmigrate," but it also made sense in the context of the sentence. Currently at this point in my life due to my studies and other similar personal experiences that transcends reason and logic, I don't really doubt the existence of God, but what I do doubt are the many and various interpretations of God and his/her and our role in the universe.

What I found really helpful is taking Bruce Lee's philosophy on fighting and applying it to life. For instance, Bruce would learn from various fighting systems. He would take what personally worked for him from the system and disregard what didn't work. Although a system or fighting style could be extremely valuable, it could also be extremely limiting and restrictive. His system was constantly in a state of becoming. Likewise, I found this same approach really helpful regarding learning from various views and belief systems. For instance, in light of new information and experiences my views are constantly evolving over time.

[yash3ahuja]

Wow rizen. Rare to see a post from you. I agree with 100% of it. Especially the last paragraph.