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Post by wottesworthsgurl on Jan 27, 2010 19:03:45 GMT -5
nice nice blitz!
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Post by hanzrimer on Jan 27, 2010 19:35:45 GMT -5
that difference between someone of faith and someone like me is if someone told me they had evidence of god I'd love to see it, yet someone who believes in god is close minded and will never be convinced other wise no matter what.
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Post by Blitzkrieg Boys on Jan 27, 2010 19:42:09 GMT -5
Really, Hanz? It appears as though you are the closed-minded one, for what I am telling you is actually rather easy to believe in, yet you refuse to accept the fact that there is a supernatural being that created you and gave you a purpose. Also, what proof do you have for NOT believing in God? Is there some way to tell if there is a God or not? No, so you should withhold judgement if you do not desire to be judged. Also, I really don't care whether you believe in God or not. You're in America, where freedom to express any religion (or opinion) is given. but again, I don't care if you're an atheist or not. Your funeral, your soul. You'll see what I mean sooner or later... On a positive note, however, I see you're from Long Island. Good man, Same here
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Post by yash3ahuja on Jan 27, 2010 20:04:13 GMT -5
See, they say god sprung up from nothing, but that means the molecules could spring up from nothing. And, I sincerely doubt, that if god was created like that, it would be created in such an evolved form. You can't just say, some things just ARE. Because, that's not an explenation, that's a way to avoid yourself from explaining.
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Post by Blitzkrieg Boys on Jan 27, 2010 20:10:49 GMT -5
Ahhh but the problem with your logic, Yash, is that you are thinking that God sprung up from nothing because you are thinking in a literal sense. God has no body, therefore no molecules were needed to form Him in the first place. He is a spirit, which always was. Molecules are limited to physics and subject to forces of nature and rules of science, such as gravity or energy. The spirit is simply like a ghost, no figure and denying the laws of physics. If molecules sprung up from nothing, we would not be here today. And if we WERE, don't you think we'd be living it up out of this dump known as earth?
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Post by yash3ahuja on Jan 27, 2010 20:20:00 GMT -5
But, if god is a spirit, you have to answer, where does the spirit originate? What could possibly give this 'spirit' all the power, and the ability to mold it? He would be bound by his spirit. Something without substance can't affect nothing. Cause he isn't a substance. I could understand if god was energy, molded by our own beliefs, but not that this 'spirit' has the ability to think and act with morality.
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Post by yash3ahuja on Jan 27, 2010 20:21:48 GMT -5
And, he can't have always of been there, because how could he possibly be there? For all eternity, before space-time.
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daking2010
Bill the Pony
Cell Says: I'LL SHOW YOU THE MEANING OF FEAR >=)
Posts: 21
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Post by daking2010 on Jan 27, 2010 20:26:56 GMT -5
The way I see it, i believe in god AND evolution, but NOT the views of christianity, although Human beings were created by simple germs constanty 'evolving' into different forms of life, WHAT or WHO created THOSE germs in the first place, they cant just POP into existence, now i dont pretend to understand ANYTHING about the creation of existence but like everyone, im entitled to my own opinion
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Post by Blitzkrieg Boys on Jan 27, 2010 20:32:44 GMT -5
I understand, yash, it's confusing, but try to stay with me here. God's spirit was created from nothing because He always was there. Try and picture there being nothing. You can't because even if there was no time or matter, you would be staring out into nothingness. Yet the nothingness would appear as if you were in a white room. Yet the white is still there. It is a color, and just as there can't be nothing without at least a color, God is the same way. So before you saw time, space, or any molecules, there would be color without being created, just as there would be God without being created.
As for your comments, no, a spirit cannot modify physical things directly. But that is where energy comes in. Energy is simply the transition of spirtiual matter and physical matter. So if God mad energy in its rawest form, chances are it can overload and become molecules. He can organize things by strategically placing energy in the right spaces, creating the big bang that made the universe. Even now, He is continuing to release energy in order to make the universe ever-expanding to show His power.
It is confusing, no doubt, but someday you will understand.
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Post by yash3ahuja on Jan 27, 2010 20:44:39 GMT -5
See, this discussion will go nowhere if we both follow our own logic. I'll try looking at it from your point of view, and you look at it from mine. So, if god was always there, then he created everything, from humans to the planets, to heaven and hell as well as time-space and the laws that govern the universe? So, if god is god, what is the holy spirit? Is it the old spirit of god? From before time-space? And he created the son of god, to wash everyone of all their sins? But, (reverting back to atheist point of view here) How would the death of his son cleanse the world of sins. Are all those sins gone, but new sins replaced them? If he was truly god, wouldn't he have Jesus make everyone bend to his will?
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Post by redwurd on Jan 27, 2010 20:52:23 GMT -5
"Hell is our worst fears manifested. If you fear someone dying, that happens. If you fear cancer, that happens. I will not go any further, just imagine your worst fears and phobias being recognized and manifested in reality (don't really picture it though, it's horrifying)." In the course of my 38 years on this planet, I have gone through Hell. I have passed the hell fires and emerged battled scarred and hopefully more appreciative of this precious gift of life that we are given. Who or what is the benefactor of that gift I could not answer. My head says atoms and big bangs, my heart wants to believe in some divine benevolent being pulling the strings.
"All you and I need to know is that God always was, always is, and always will be..." Actually there have been a wide variety of Gods over the course of humankind. Neanderthal man and the early homo sapiens tried to explain the 'magic' of their world, to help explain away all the mysteries. Then more advanced civilizations like Egypt, Greeks, Muslims, and Chinese had more advanced religions and more Gods. The 'Christian' God Jehovah is actually a Jewish War God that has somehow transformed from some wrathful & vengeful God to that of a Loving God. Most Christian holidays and ideas stem from Pagan beginnings such as Christmas & Easter. So which God is the true God? Or does there even have to be one God? There are countless billions of people that believe in another religion that differs from Christianity. Are they wrong then? Look within the Christian Religion itself Why are there Protestants, Roman Catholics, Baptists, United, Presbyterian, Pentecostal, Methodist, etc ...... are they all the same God, and if so why all the different takes on Christianity.
These are just merely questions that I have asked myself, and am not questioning your beliefs. My conclusions are inconclusive at the moment, hell maybe they'll never be answered. I can't dispel scientific facts for some fairy tale. But in the same breath I believe that there is something within us humans that speaks of divinity. Be it God, spirit, or magic. Great works of art like Michaelangelo's David or Beethoven's Ode to Joy, humanitarians that embody love and respect like Mother Theresa and the Dali Lama, speak to me of some higher power than that of ourselves.
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Post by Blitzkrieg Boys on Jan 27, 2010 21:09:02 GMT -5
Very well. I will try from your point of view. The molecules that created the earth happen to always be there. Once the big bang happened, the universe came into being. Molecules formed two people, who then started the human race. Is this correct? This view is very nearly correct from what I see, just that God created the molecules, and He created the first two human beings. Now as for your questions, The Holy Spirit, Jesus, and God the Father are all one being. It's like a clover. Each individual leaf is part of the clover, yet together they make up the clover itself. God the Father and God the Son were always there, with the Holy Spirit being the biggest mystery. Truely learned theologans however, have said that the Holy Spirit is the divine relationship between the Son and the Father, and that the Holy Spirit is the guiding love buried in each of our hearts. As I stated from the ATCQ song, "There is divinity from within because we come from the divine." Since God is all-good, then we have some goodness in us, manifested to be known as the conscience. God also gives us guardian angels to help strengthen our consciences, but that is a whole other subject. Now, in the beginning before God created the earth, He created the angels and heaven. Some of the angels did not want to follow God, however, so they revolted. The angels loyal to God faught the evil angels and prevailed. The evil angels, led by their leader Lucifer (Morning Star in Hebrew, I believe), were cast out of heaven. God needed a place to keep the evil angels, now called devils (or demons), so He created hell, and forever banished them from heaven. Cursing God, they now suffered in a lake of fire in the netherworld. After God had created the earth, however, the devils started to enter earth. Although God knew of this, He let them enter, for He wanted to test Adam and Eve, the first humans. The devil tricked them, and they lost the right to the garden of eden, which was simply heavn on earth. In addition, the lost all of their graces, became inclined to evil, made subject to pain and suffering, made child birth painful, and LOST THE RIGHT TO HEAVEN. The sin that they commited was grave, bringing evil into the world. God knew, however, that not all men would be evil, so He promised to send a Redeemer into the world as a sacrifice to make up for the sins of Adam. Now, who could possibly that important to have himself sacrificed in atonement for the world? Only God's Son Himself. So Jesus came into the world, God made man, died on a cross after being spit on and mocked, in order to obtain for you everlasting life. And God would never make us do anything, because we have freewill. He gave us freewill to decide whether we want to follow Him, or follow the demons. As for things like sin, suffering, and evil, God leaves them on earth to ensure that we are sufficiently tested. If we were not tested and did not have freewill, then we would simply be puppets in the show of life. This is all I have to say for tonight. I must be going, but I'll try and answer the rest of any of your questions tomorrow
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Post by yash3ahuja on Jan 27, 2010 22:18:50 GMT -5
Okay, I get that. But, there's scientific evidence, that there were many upon many of animals here before humans, and, the first human were Neanderthals. Like Lucy. Are you saying Adam and Eve were Neanderthals? And, since you know all this stuff, Lucifer is Satan, right? Eve gave into temptation when she ate the (onyx?) apple? And they gave birth to Cain and his brother. I know the story of Cain and his brother. His brothers name was Abel? And, why did Lucifer try to test get Jesus to give into the sins? If he is the son of god, would God cast him down to hell? Or would he have. A conscience?
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Post by [ROJOES]ronjons on Jan 28, 2010 1:57:17 GMT -5
that difference between someone of faith and someone like me is if someone told me they had evidence of god I'd love to see it, yet someone who believes in god is close minded and will never be convinced other wise no matter what. God (infinite) vs people (finite bods). show somone a 16lb steak they might be awestruck (except tony randall). Then show an infinitely sized steak,a person would never see all of it before they died of old age, hence never have proof of infinite steak (ah... red meat). Smilarly proving an infinite God's real is a jiggered task. Someone may find a beardy bloke firing lighting out of the fingers,could be God or a potential startrek adversary, far from infinite. all hail Burns
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Post by yash3ahuja on Jan 28, 2010 2:07:15 GMT -5
^I remember that episode. The simpsons is awesome. It was a wax body right?
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