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Post by jenaez on Feb 3, 2010 16:39:38 GMT -5
Im agree with you BM, the only way a spawning camping can be cheap is with scout and only when you are doing spawn backstab, because in any other situation dont help you in nothing
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Post by straightcash5 on Feb 3, 2010 16:52:20 GMT -5
as i said, you think that your points are facts, es tiberon didn't, and you think that your counter to his points were right, you think they're facts, maybe he thinks the same thing about your points. so go ahead and believe that your right, it's your right too.
as for dancing, it isn't necessary but it does prevent any fighting before both people are ready and spawn camping
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Post by Strider on Feb 3, 2010 16:57:12 GMT -5
With regards to spawn camping, I have yet to see anyone explain why spawn camping is bad in a 1v1. There is no advantage to spawn camping in a 1v1 (other than to expedite the match, which is a positive for everyone involved) since your opponent has spawn invincibility so if you're too close you're going to be at a severe disadvantage until it wears off. Mages: Firewall. It slows your opponent down and takes health away once the brief invincibility has expired. Archers: Poison arrow. Once the invincibilty is gone, you will be poisoned and will lose health. Scouts: Invisibility. You can sneak attack your opponents - bomb/melee. Also, the brief invincibility period does not prevent backstabs. Warriors: Stair camping (as Good player). Though this can be done with and against any class. Anyone that has caught or been a victim to getting attacked on uneven terrain or, in this case, stairs can attest to how difficult it can be to get your bearings back.
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Post by straightcash5 on Feb 3, 2010 17:05:14 GMT -5
well strider just broke down why it is for each class, and all are legit reasons why dancing should be used
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Post by BulgarianMenace on Feb 3, 2010 17:08:35 GMT -5
No, I state facts, and then draw logical conclusions from them.
Take this simple example:
Proposition: If Bob is a bachelor, then Bob is a man. Fact: Bob is a bachelor. Conclusion: Bob is a man.
At no point did either you or Tiberon show that my logic was flawed or that my facts were wrong. All you did (are doing) is saying that my conclusion is a matter of opinion, when if the premises are true then and the conclusion follow logically then it too must be true (i.e. not opinion).
And you and tiberon can "think" what you want, but if you can't properly argue that then your thoughts are worthless in a debate.
in a 1v1 people should always be ready (and if they're typing it's usually pretty obvious).
and I already addressed spawn camping.
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Post by straightcash5 on Feb 3, 2010 17:13:47 GMT -5
..... lol ok bm, your right as usual, we should all go by your FACTS
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Post by BulgarianMenace on Feb 3, 2010 17:24:13 GMT -5
Mages: Firewall. It slows your opponent down and takes health away once the brief invincibility has expired. It also grants energy and leaves the caster vulnerable to attack while casting. Unless of course the mage threw the firewall before the other person spawned, anticipating they would spawn in that exact circle (unlikely) in which case they would have to get lucky with the respawn timing and even then because they cast it before the opponent spawned it would likely run out before the spawn invincibility wares off (and the person would easily be able to leave the range of the firewall while invincible, leaving the mage without a valuable weapon, essentially wasting a firewall, and their opponent with extra energy). With the exception of archer vs archer matches, if the camping archer is far away then the other classes can easily get into cover before invincibility wears off, and once they do they all have ways to negate the damage (heal, dogde/roll elminates most and can eliminate all damage if timed correctly). And warriors/scouts get that much more energy for at most a sliver of their health (good trade for the scout/warrior, bad for the archer). If the archer is close then they will usually die, even in archer vs archer. Backstabs require even more luck than firewall to be in just the right place to backstab before the other player can jump). In an 8v8 it's much more likely since you routinely have people spawning at all the locations, and if you know exactly the position where someone spawns you can wait behind it and bs them the moment they appear. But in a 1v1 it is impossible to cover all those angles, even if you're playing the 1v1 on a conquest or ctr map (because although people spawn at the same point, they spawn in different positions around the point. As for invisibility setting up for bombs/melee, that applies for any moment throughout the match, not just at spawn. In fact, bomb's melee especially DON'T apply on spawn because of the invincibility. Once again, this applies to the game in general, not spawn camping in particular. And finally, even if you find any of those tactics to be distasteful, the bottom line is that they are perfectly fair, and not because of advantage/disadvantage of spawn invincibility, but because they are options that are equally available to both players (and are not game breaking glitches).
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Post by Strider on Feb 3, 2010 18:09:56 GMT -5
It also grants energy and leaves the caster vulnerable to attack while casting. Unless of course the mage threw the firewall before the other person spawned, anticipating they would spawn in that exact circle (unlikely) in which case they would have to get lucky with the respawn timing and even then because they cast it before the opponent spawned it would likely run out before the spawn invincibility wares off (and the person would easily be able to leave the range of the firewall while invincible, leaving the mage without a valuable weapon, essentially wasting a firewall, and their opponent with extra energy). It can make the caster vulnerable to attack, but not likely. In the case of a Mage vs. Mage 1v1: you can firewall, dodge, and spam lightning. This will cause the other mage to either: burn a heal, back away & throw up a shield, or make a risky attempt at attacking back. With the exception of archer vs archer matches, if the camping archer is far away then the other classes can easily get into cover before invincibility wears off, and once they do they all have ways to negate the damage (heal, dogde/roll elminates most and can eliminate all damage if timed correctly). And warriors/scouts get that much more energy for at most a sliver of their health (good trade for the scout/warrior, bad for the archer). If the archer is close then they will usually die, even in archer vs archer. Any good/smart player knows the spawn points and can camp them accordingly (not that difficult when playing Osgiliath). Yes, you can heal/dodge/roll out of the poision...but that, in turn, can make you vulnerable. Backstabs require even more luck than firewall to be in just the right place to backstab before the other player can jump). In an 8v8 it's much more likely since you routinely have people spawning at all the locations, and if you know exactly the position where someone spawns you can wait behind it and bs them the moment they appear. But in a 1v1 it is impossible to cover all those angles, even if you're playing the 1v1 on a conquest or ctr map (because although people spawn at the same point, they spawn in different positions around the point. As for invisibility setting up for bombs/melee, that applies for any moment throughout the match, not just at spawn. In fact, bomb's melee especially DON'T apply on spawn because of the invincibility. Point taken about BS'ing - though it can still happen by anticipation ("luck"). As for invisibility upon spawn: Of course you're not going to use it once they spawn. You wait the few seconds, then pounce. I suppose that does apply to any moment in the match, but still seems especially advantageous after an opponent spawns - IMO. Once again, this applies to the game in general, not spawn camping in particular. The evil player usually spawns in the same corner (Osgiliath), near the bottom of the stairs - their spawn area. Whether that's considered spawn camping or not is, I suppose, subjective. And finally, even if you find any of those tactics to be distasteful, the bottom line is that they are perfectly fair, and not because of advantage/disadvantage of spawn invincibility, but because they are options that are equally available to both players (and are not game breaking glitches). No, you're not breaking any rules by glitching - I agree. However, you stated that there are no advantages created by spawn camping (other than to expedite a match). I just wanted to illustrate why I believe that there are clear advantages.
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Post by optimusmime on Feb 3, 2010 18:15:04 GMT -5
If I could just make one point of defense for the "Xbox 1v1" debate. (which I wouldn't necessarily call it the Xbox360 style per say)
If however you wish to look at doing a 1v1 much like a fighting game (such as Street Fighter for instance or Mortal Kombat.) After each round, both players re spawn with FULL health, and neither players could spawn camp because its as if each round is an individual battle within itself for the greater overall win. (With however it being Conquest having10 to 15 rounds. Over most "fighters' being the usual 3.)
I suppose however it all depends on the AGREED upon rules anyone wants to play with and if each party wishes to agree upon it then really there should be no real complaints.
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Post by Onde Aander on Feb 4, 2010 10:05:18 GMT -5
omg just shut up and fight me
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Post by grad22au on Feb 6, 2010 20:34:17 GMT -5
wt do u have to lose bm, if u know ur better, then fighting in a different rule set shouldnt make a difference.
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Post by TheLegendaryBroly on Feb 7, 2010 2:05:30 GMT -5
omg just shut up and fight me No
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Post by redwurd on Feb 7, 2010 9:48:54 GMT -5
Perhaps "pursuing" him and giving him the attention won't get you that dance (I'm not even going to go into the dance before fighting debate, even though HEY! it's FUN to DANCE! everyone loves to dance), that you want Onde Aander. Maybe ignoring him and showing your disdain at his mere existence and that he doesn't even register a blip on your radar would then get him 'interested' in you. Oh wait wrong posting, I thought this was for Love & Relationships and the 'how to get them that into you' advice column. Aww come on BM it isn't polite to refuse a lady a dance (& before your clever lap dance remark or the like bear fruition )
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Post by TheLegendaryBroly on Feb 7, 2010 14:37:15 GMT -5
why does everyone "dance" b4 fighting i was the only 1 doing the "dance" on ps3 stop copying me.......
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Post by flee14 on Feb 7, 2010 15:17:21 GMT -5
lol
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