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Post by BulgarianMenace on Nov 15, 2009 20:12:21 GMT -5
for example, in the clan war between TM7 and TCF, they started off as almost all mages, but when confronted with our archers they were forced to field archers because otherwise they would get destroyed from afar once our warrior/scout/mages forced them to drop their shields.
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Post by straightcash5 on Nov 15, 2009 22:38:43 GMT -5
yea i had to switch to archer because joppi was blowin everybodies head off and no one could get near him, but when we did have alot of mages 4 or 5 at the beginning, too many, and they got through us and got a capture quickly, and why they did was because the warriors got inside the shields and the archers finished us off. If you don't have archer's it is much harder to stop the opposing team.
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Post by megajonzero on Nov 16, 2009 0:56:41 GMT -5
I thought this whole thing was supposed to prove which class is better 1v1. So some archer go against a mage that doesnt normally play as either class.
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Post by NexsusX (Fury) on Nov 16, 2009 2:31:42 GMT -5
well to keep it fair i guess you would have to use huge stages so unfortunatly some tdm stages would have to be disqualified ( aka helms deep) and depending on the skill lvl of whos playing i think archers could win just shooting out some names but joppi,liz,berk,fob. all you have to do is get passed the infinte heal :X
but i bet ya if it was htdm 8 gandalfs couldnt beat 8 wormtounges hehehehe
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Post by megajonzero on Nov 16, 2009 7:14:33 GMT -5
haha ill take that challenge
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Post by hanzrimer on Nov 16, 2009 13:33:02 GMT -5
wrong! but thanks for playing
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Post by xcolossus2x on Nov 16, 2009 14:02:50 GMT -5
ok heres my opinion: in the match up (1vs1) the mage can hold his shield up as long as possible but will eventually have to drop it to attack, and so the perfect archer can crit hit trip shot or fire shot to kill before any mage attack can come out, unfortunately the perfect archer is hard to come by, but in the (8vs8) match that advantage is lost because the shield can stay up and others can still attack, while the archer cant defend against those attacks and would have to get past firewalls and ground stomps to even get inside the bubble to get a shot off, so advantage goes to mages in numbers, again this is only my opinion
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Post by BURNZILLA47 on Nov 16, 2009 14:16:45 GMT -5
I bet you 47 million dollars that 8 Grimas who know how to cook a bomb would curb stomp 8 Gandalfs.
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Post by hanzrimer on Nov 16, 2009 15:14:34 GMT -5
Yes but not if the Gandalfs know what they are doing. Gandalf is the best hero with the exceptions of Sauron and the Balrog.
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Post by hanzrimer on Nov 16, 2009 15:44:14 GMT -5
I thought this whole thing was supposed to prove which class is better 1v1. So some archer go against a mage that doesnt normally play as either class. I've already clearly laid out that challenge and no one has accepted. What you're saying makes sense except for the fact that everyone knows mages are better and no one wants to do the challenge out of fear they are wrong.
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Post by ALM1GHTY_AMACED on Nov 16, 2009 15:52:02 GMT -5
I'm always archer in htdm I get easy kills unlike gandalf where you take your shield and you get sniped in the head. I say archer is better in htdm. In tdm if I play against good players who mostly plays archers then for me archer is better because getting to 3 good archers is hard but if 1 Mage is protecting them its adifferent story but against random players who have 1 or 2 good players Mage is better because it kills easily and no worries of getting killed instantly by a lot of good archers. All of that said 8 vs 8 archer vs Mage. MAGE WILL WIN. I love challenges so I'll play archer when is this?
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Post by BulgarianMenace on Nov 16, 2009 16:18:55 GMT -5
I thought this whole thing was supposed to prove which class is better 1v1. So some archer go against a mage that doesnt normally play as either class. It's not. It's about which class is better, period. To that end, your scenario wouldn't prove which is class is better because people who don't normally play as either class are not accurate indicators of how good the class is.
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Post by Joppi on Nov 16, 2009 17:18:46 GMT -5
Uh, 8 Wormtongues would rape 8 Gandalfs. It wouldn't even be close. Have you ever seen Grima's bomb?
Uh, IIRC they came out with a fairly balanced team (with at least two archers) and gradually switched to more mages. They didn't have any huge amount of mages for a while.
Anyway, I don't know why 1v1s are up for debate. BM and I have 1v1'd several times and he beats me rather consistently. It's not a rape, but I only win when I get a significant stage advantage. Otherwise, we usually go relatively close, unless we're on a terrible archer stage like Helm's Deep TDM.
This is absolute bullshit and you know it, BM. If multishit was even half as consistent as that, I'd go 50+-0 every game and I'd beat you flawlessly in every 1v1 we ever played. The only place it can be this consistent is if you're like two inches from the archer in a hallway (and I've even had shots like that miss the head).
BM, the problem is that you have no idea how hard it is to play the archer in a 1v1 scenario. It's not just "Oh, there's a head, let's snap to it like a robot and kill him instantly". There's a fuck-ton of stuff that the archer has to watch out for because they can be completely fucked over with just one mistake. Zooming is nearly impossible to do in close range unless you have gratuitous testicles and the mage is knocked over or something. Otherwise, not only is it hard to get the head at close-range, a mage can also jump out of the archer's view immediately and it's impossible for the archer to get him back in his sights (if he's zooming) if the mage keeps moving. Even if he snaps out of zoom and tries to zoom again, the mage will still have gotten off at least two lightnings, a shockwave, or the firewall, all of which ensure the archer's quick and instant death.
Still, the 1v1 is not a rape, and it does change rather drastically depending on the stage, but I'd still favor the mage in general.
As far as 8v8 goes, the archers win at TDM, but that's it. In Conquest, the archer gets fucked over by a lot of shields and doesn't have the defense to capture points by himself. He can rack kills, but I'd usually rather take a mage who can take a warrior or another mage and pretty much capture any point unless there are like 6 guys in it. In CTR, the archer is again limited to contributing solely through kills. Mages are basically the driving force behind every capture, and scouts are instrumental in both capturing the ring and defeating enemy pushes through strategic elimination.
Killing is cool, but, especially in CTR and Conquest, it's not the only thing needed to win. The archer is completely reliant on killing to contribute, whereas mages can contribute in several different ways including killing. Archers do what they do really really well, and they can make life hell in some stages, but I still think the mage is more "credit to team" in most situations. Archers are still a great and necessary resource, but so are mages.
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Post by eternalagony on Nov 16, 2009 17:36:31 GMT -5
Uh, 8 Wormtongues would rape 8 Gandalfs. It wouldn't even be close. Have you ever seen Grima's bomb? Uh, IIRC they came out with a fairly balanced team (with at least two archers) and gradually switched to more mages. They didn't have any huge amount of mages for a while. Anyway, I don't know why 1v1s are up for debate. BM and I have 1v1'd several times and he beats me rather consistently. It's not a rape, but I only win when I get a significant stage advantage. Otherwise, we usually go relatively close, unless we're on a terrible archer stage like Helm's Deep TDM. This is absolute bullshit and you know it, BM. If multishit was even half as consistent as that, I'd go 50+-0 every game and I'd beat you flawlessly in every 1v1 we ever played. The only place it can be this consistent is if you're like two inches from the archer in a hallway (and I've even had shots like that miss the head). BM, the problem is that you have no idea how hard it is to play the archer in a 1v1 scenario. It's not just "Oh, there's a head, let's snap to it like a robot and kill him instantly". There's a fuck-ton of stuff that the archer has to watch out for because they can be completely fucked over with just one mistake. Zooming is nearly impossible to do in close range unless you have gratuitous testicles and the mage is knocked over or something. Otherwise, not only is it hard to get the head at close-range, a mage can also jump out of the archer's view immediately and it's impossible for the archer to get him back in his sights (if he's zooming) if the mage keeps moving. Even if he snaps out of zoom and tries to zoom again, the mage will still have gotten off at least two lightnings, a shockwave, or the firewall, all of which ensure the archer's quick and instant death. Still, the 1v1 is not a rape, and it does change rather drastically depending on the stage, but I'd still favor the mage in general. As far as 8v8 goes, the archers win at TDM, but that's it. In Conquest, the archer gets fucked over by a lot of shields and doesn't have the defense to capture points by himself. He can rack kills, but I'd usually rather take a mage who can take a warrior or another mage and pretty much capture any point unless there are like 6 guys in it. In CTR, the archer is again limited to contributing solely through kills. Mages are basically the driving force behind every capture, and scouts are instrumental in both capturing the ring and defeating enemy pushes through strategic elimination. Killing is cool, but, especially in CTR and Conquest, it's not the only thing needed to win. The archer is completely reliant on killing to contribute, whereas mages can contribute in several different ways including killing. Archers do what they do really really well, and they can make life hell in some stages, but I still think the mage is more "credit to team" in most situations. Archers are still a great and necessary resource, but so are mages. Finally someone who gets it! Very smart Joppi, I agree.
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Post by BURNZILLA47 on Nov 16, 2009 17:39:53 GMT -5
"Uh, 8 Wormtongues would rape 8 Gandalfs. It wouldn't even be close. Have you ever seen Grima's bomb?" Agreed. I should also point out that 1 time bomb and 1 satchel bomb will kill Gandalf. Provided Grima quickly recovers from his own blast and throws the satchel bomb quickly and accuratly, there's nothing Sir Ian McEllan can do but die to the sound of his own hobbit-like screams, no matter how furiously he's trying to spam the heal button. I guess that's all I'll say about Grima because this is supposed to about mages and archers.
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