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Post by redwurd on Nov 23, 2009 11:03:37 GMT -5
Okay the age old debate still goes on..... who has the total bragging rights of TOTAL OWNERSHIP OF AWESOMENESS! In this corner with the all seeing eye, hobbits the badassadness of a Gollum against In the other corner the Jungian psychology, incest undertones, light sabres, the force & ewoks (& no I won't even mention Jar Jar Binks : of Star Wars Okay let the battle of debate begin!!! Oh Star Wars takes the first shot & it's hitting below the belt!
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Post by hanzrimer on Nov 23, 2009 11:49:29 GMT -5
I thought the age old debate was Star Was vs Star Trek?
Either way, in my younger days, I was obsessed with Star Wars, when the prequels came out i even convinced myself they were awesome. But currently I have to give the nod to Lord of the Rings. Not even talking about the films, the story itself is just more original and epic, and the world itself full of races and their own languages just makes Lord of the Rings tops. I think it's pretty much the best story/world of any fantasy or sci-fi creation ever, except maybe god, that's a good fantasy character as well.
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Post by starscreamrobot on Nov 24, 2009 7:53:20 GMT -5
Both Lord of the Rings and Star Wars are based on Joseph Campbell's Monomyth theory, neither containing much in the way of original elements. Both draw their characters, locations, creatures, and story elements from mythology and place them in a new setting.
And for all you "LOL LOTR OBV ITS THIS GAME" folks, remember this: this game is based entirely on the Star Wars Battlefront series, so it wouldn't even exist without SW. Just sayin'.
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Post by BulgarianMenace on Nov 24, 2009 7:59:36 GMT -5
What starscream said. They employ all the same archetypes. Really very similar in every way.
That said, the woman might be the same, but the dress she's wearing is different. So, which wrapping do you prefer starscream?
Also, "they're not gay: they're hobbits" had me dying.
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Post by redwurd on Nov 24, 2009 9:14:48 GMT -5
I was unaware of Joseph Campbell's Monomyth "the Hero with a Thousand Faces" first published in 1949, had any influences on Tolkien's Lord of the Rings work. The Hobbit written in 1932 first introduces us to Middle Earth & the Precious One Ring to Rule them All. The Lord of the Rings was written in stages from 1932 - 1949, mostly during WWII. Themes that Influenced Tolkien's Lord of the Rings: Norse & German mythology such as Beowulf, philology (branch of linguistics concerned with form & meaning in linguistic expressions & ancestry of languages),World War I & World War II, Industrialization & Pollution, and Roman Catholicism.
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Post by BulgarianMenace on Nov 24, 2009 9:18:25 GMT -5
Doesn't change the fact that both star wars and lotr use the same archetypes and story mechanics. I don't know anything about Joseph Campbell, but star was does borrow heavily from lotr, which itself uses ideas which are not in the least original.
EDIT: Now after googling "Joseph Campbell's Monomyth theory" and reading the same wiki article you probably did before you made that post, you clearly misinterpreted what starscream was saying. He didn't mean that tolkien borrowed from Campbell, but that Tolkien's work is based on the "monomyth" which Campbell described in The Hero with a Thousand Faces. Though Campbell might have been the first to use that term, the story type that it denotes existed beforehand, it is upon that which tolkien and luca based their works.
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Post by redwurd on Nov 24, 2009 12:58:39 GMT -5
Apparently I did read Starscream post wrong, oops my bad..... Oh I was familiar with Joseph Campbell way before Google, back in high school (oh sooo many years ago), and only googled the Monomyth Theory because, well my memory doesn't fire up as it should (playing too much video games has in fact rotted my brain, damn I haven't even read a book in 3 months!!! GASP!!!) Yes the story myths of heroes existed thousands of years before Campbell & Tolkien, with the likes of Homer (the Iliad), Sophocles (Oedipus Rex), and Beowulf (first written surviving English Epic Poem). The Monomyth Theory explains the common themes to be found in most tales of heroes. To familiarize yourself to Joseph Campbell's work, may I suggest his interviews "The Power of Myth" with Bill Moyers for PBS or the companion book "The Power of Myth" (which I should reread). They are basically a cumulation of his life's work and delves into what's been going on in mankind since we could consciously formulate a thought about our existence in this world. and yes "they're not gay! they're Hobbits!!" gets me giggling my ass off everytime!
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Post by hanzrimer on Nov 24, 2009 14:23:03 GMT -5
Both Lord of the Rings and Star Wars are based on Joseph Campbell's Monomyth theory, neither containing much in the way of original elements. Both draw their characters, locations, creatures, and story elements from mythology and place them in a new setting. And for all you "LOL LOTR OBV ITS THIS GAME" folks, remember this: this game is based entirely on the Star Wars Battlefront series, so it wouldn't even exist without SW. Just sayin'.[/quote even if you wanted to dissect it like that, as films, they are so different. There is also acting, cinematography and just directing to consider.
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Post by Strider on Nov 24, 2009 16:15:14 GMT -5
Are we talking Tolkien-LOTR or Jackson-LOTR?
Either way...
LOTR > Star Wars
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Post by BulgarianMenace on Nov 24, 2009 16:17:14 GMT -5
Although, I would rather have a light saber and force powers (jedi mind trick!) over anything in lotr. Not counting immortality.
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Post by Strider on Nov 24, 2009 16:22:40 GMT -5
Although, I would rather have a light saber and force powers (jedi mind trick!) over anything in lotr. Not counting immortality. Haha! You can't discount immortality! Agreed though. Lightsabers & force powers are not to be overlooked.
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Post by starscreamrobot on Nov 24, 2009 21:37:23 GMT -5
BM's got what I meant right. In fact, Tolkien and Campbell had met and discussed the issue in their lifetimes. I've literally read everything Campbell has ever published ( including essays and letters ) except for one volume of his Masks of God series, Oriental Mythology, because I haven't forgotten Pearl Harbor.
Regardless, Star Wars is way better. Both use the idea of applied mythology, but Star Wars uses it in a way that's more relevant to modern times, and also uses a much more unique setting. Tolkien took creatures and monsters from mythology and essentially still put them in the same setting they'd already been in, a magical primitive Earth, but Star Wars takes those things and puts them in an entirely unique setting where they've never been before.
The lack of detail in comparison is a plus, if you ask me. I think I'd rather get to the point than read four pages descring a field and a poem every other page while the Battle of Helm's Deep ( in the books ) is only a few pages. Gimme explosions, thanks. The simplification is a good thing, and makes the story easier to relate to. Try to think of which Lord of the Rings character you relate to most, and you'll have a hard time. "Well I'm a little bit of Sam with some of Boromir and some of..." In Star Wars you're either a Han or a Luke, and that's all you need.
Even with just the films, Star Wars ( the OT ) is more well put together. The idea of editing is to be concise. Showing 30 minutes of establishing shots with mountains and fields looks good and I'm glad it's there, but the locations in Star Wars are so unique that you only need a quick glimpse to know what planet you're on and you can get on with it. Likewise, to this day, I still believe no action piece has ever been edited and cut better than the Battle of Endor.
That said it's still just personal preference and if you like the other more whatever, and I'll fully admit that I've been obsessed with Star Wars since I was about three years old, have read 300+ books, and pretty much know everything there is to know about it, so there is bias in play.
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Post by yash3ahuja on Nov 24, 2009 22:37:37 GMT -5
^^ I agree. I really hate the amount of unnecassery detail in alot of these epics.
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Post by yash3ahuja on Nov 24, 2009 22:38:23 GMT -5
^^ I agree. I really hate the amount of unnecassery detail in alot of these epics.
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Post by rizen33 on Nov 25, 2009 5:13:34 GMT -5
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