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Post by jonathan1515 on Jul 1, 2009 12:25:29 GMT -5
Who do you think was more important in helping Frodo to destroy the ring?
Do you think it was Gollum who helped lead Frodo to the black gate and through the secret passage to Mount Doom. Even though his intention weren't the same as Frodo without him the ring wouldn't have been destroyed.
Or do you think Sam was more important, although he like Frodo didn't know where they were going he was there with Frodo, and helped him along the way. If it weren't for Sam, Frodo would not have had the will to go on.
Lastly, do you think it's someone else who might not have been with Frodo directly but was still the most crucial point to help him?
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Post by jonathan1515 on Jul 1, 2009 12:28:10 GMT -5
I said Smeagol/Gollum. Although he didn't want the ring to be destroyed, and he betrayed Frodo in the end. It was because of his guiadance through the dead marshes, and around the black gate that allowed Frodo to have a chance to destroy the ring.
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Post by nbgfr478ii on Jul 1, 2009 15:03:10 GMT -5
I would say Sam for his support and help that held the Fellowship together, even when it was only Frodo besides him. Gollum's leadership was very helpful, but Sam freed Frodo from Shelob, carried him to the entrance to mount Doom when he couldn't walk, kept Moral going when they were in Osgiliath, Saved his life on Mount Doom after the Ring was destroyed and saved him in the tower of Cirith Ungol. Also partially because there was a vote for Gollum  But i think they were both important enough in the quest to help Frodo to allow him to succeed. IMO |
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Post by BURNZILLA47 on Jul 3, 2009 2:22:21 GMT -5
It's hard to say because it all adds up in the end. I want to say Gollum because even though he may not have intended it, it was because of him that the ring was ultimately destroyed. Then again, if it wasn't for Samwise, it wouldn't even gotten to that point. This is a good topic for discussion.
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Post by Strider on Jul 3, 2009 10:39:13 GMT -5
Frodo would not have survived had Sam not gone with him. The ring would have fallen back into the control of Sauron and we would have read a very different story.
NBG said it best.
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Post by Joppi on Jul 5, 2009 15:48:24 GMT -5
Sam, imo. Gollum showed them the way, but he wasn't really trying to help Frodo. Hell, most of the places Gollum took them to were designed specifically to kill Frodo, and it was only because of Sam that Frodo came out alive. They wouldn't really know where to go without Gollum, but Frodo would probably eventually come to his senses and make his way back to the Fellowship. From there, I imagine it'd be pretty easy to destroy the ring.
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Post by BURNZILLA47 on Jul 5, 2009 16:38:38 GMT -5
Good points. Still, Frodo did succumb to the ring as surely Gollum would have as well. The Precious died in Gollums hands and if he weren't there to attack Frodo on the edge of the cliff,.......well, just play Rise of Sauron to find out what would have happened.  I know thats not what Gollum had in mind, but that's how it happened and that's how the Precious was ultimately destroyed. Then again, unlike Gollum, Sam's intentions were always for the good so it's possible that he may have seen to it that the ring was destroyed if things went differently. |
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Post by jonathan1515 on Jul 5, 2009 17:58:42 GMT -5
Well I would say Gollum was more important. I don't think he would've made it far without Gollum's guidance. Yes, the ring wouldn't have been destroyed without Sam's help but Gollum played a larger role. If gollum weren't there Frodo wouldn't have been able to find his way back to the fellowship. He had left them and wouldn't go back to them.
Also, I bet Frodo would've been found if it were not for Gollum. Frodo thought he could just walk through the black gate and get all the way through Mordor, but they would've been caught right away. Gollum allowed them to find ways in which they wouldn't be caught.
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Post by srini on Jul 5, 2009 22:04:25 GMT -5
Lol when Burnz said about the rise of sauron, I remembered something about the first level. When I played it, I chased him all the way to Mt Doom, and Frodo said something like "I enjoy killing now!!". Which is exactly when I axed him. It was hilarious! One second scary evil guy talk. Next second, the really funny scream of frodo's, as he fell into the lava.
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Post by hanzrimer on Jul 6, 2009 12:18:16 GMT -5
my vote goes to Samwise. Although gollum, among others were helpful. A case could be made for Gandalf, who suspected it was the wrong of power. Also if you really want to get crazy, you can say Elrond. Gandalf wanted to just leave the ring in Rivendall for safe keeping but Elrond knew it had to be destroyed.
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Post by srini on Jul 6, 2009 17:28:59 GMT -5
I still don't understand why they could't just nuke mordor.
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Post by nbgfr478ii on Jul 6, 2009 21:05:33 GMT -5
I still don't understand why they could't just nuke mordor. How would you "Nuke" Mordor? I would seriously like to know  It wouldn't solve the problem. The problem is Sauron, he's a lesser spirit and he's immortal and lives on after the destruction of the ring, but he can't reform until Dagor Dagaerlad or the end of the world if my memory is correct. Nuking mordor wouldn't kill Sauron. |
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Post by jonathan1515 on Jul 6, 2009 21:34:28 GMT -5
Maybe a case should be made for Galdriel. She gave them those gifts which allowed Frodo and Sam to sruvive in the tunnel (whatever it was called) the one with Shelob in it. Without the light they both would have been dead.
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Post by jonathan1515 on Jul 6, 2009 21:39:42 GMT -5
You know I'd think it's hard to point it down to one person who's the most important. They all played different roles in helping Frodo. Wether that role be Gollums in guiding him, Sam's in supporting him, or even others like Elrond who made the journey happen. Then there's always Gandalf, and the rest of the fellowship. Each played a role and without one of them there they would have been dead. Even Merry and Pippin helped. Which one was that took the Palantir and made Sauron think they had the ring. Because i'm sure that helped alot.
Through the work of everyone the goal was accomplished. If just one thing went wrong that sliver of hope would have faded. That's what makes Lord of the rings great because it's such an epic story and makes even the most impossible thing happen.
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Post by srini on Jul 7, 2009 1:50:00 GMT -5
I still don't understand why they could't just nuke mordor. How would you "Nuke" Mordor? I would seriously like to know It wouldn't solve the problem. The problem is Sauron, he's a lesser spirit and he's immortal and lives on after the destruction of the ring, but he can't reform until Dagor Dagaerlad or the end of the world if my memory is correct. Nuking mordor wouldn't kill Sauron. Relax dude! I was just kidding. |
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But i think they were both important enough in the quest to help Frodo to allow him to succeed. IMO 
I know thats not what Gollum had in mind, but that's how it happened and that's how the Precious was ultimately destroyed. Then again, unlike Gollum, Sam's intentions were always for the good so it's possible that he may have seen to it that the ring was destroyed if things went differently.
