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Post by thebountyhunter on Jan 27, 2010 12:37:49 GMT -5
Ever think blitz there is some things humans can't explain, instead of saying"GOd made that" to every question of creation?
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Post by BulgarianMenace on Jan 27, 2010 14:50:21 GMT -5
Why do you need to believe in god to be nice to know to be kind?
Seriously, god is superfluous.
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Post by Blitzkrieg Boys on Jan 27, 2010 15:06:38 GMT -5
Bountyhunter, I'm sure EVERYTHING can be either explained or proven, if not by mathematical or scientific equations or observations, then by divine revelation or miracles. There is no such thing as random, and there is no such thing as inexplicible.
Also, BM, that;s my point. How hard is it really to just believe that there is an almighty being watching over the world? What exactly puts the desire to be kind or the drive to do good in our hearts? And if there is no God, there would be no heaven or hell. And if there is no heaven or hell, why be good in the first place? Why be good? Why not be evil, if nobody will punish you anyway?
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Post by redwurd on Jan 27, 2010 15:33:18 GMT -5
I am not a Samurai or even Japanese but I try to follow their Way of the Warrior of Courage, Honour, and Justice. They follow a strict code of conduct, the Bushido - is based on the Zen Buddhist principles: Rectitude, Courage, Benevolence, Respect, Trust, & Loyalty until Death. I am not a Christian but I do follow the principles of love one another and do what I can to make this world a better place. I do not think that Christianity has the exclusivity on common decency and being kind to one another. I believe the Dali Lama has that covered. One of my 'spiritual mentors' is Chief Seattle. "You must teach your children that the ground beneath their feet is the ashes of your grandfathers. So that they will respect the Land, tell your children that the earth is rich with the lives of our kin. Teach your children what we have taught our children, that the earth is our mother. Whatever befalls the earth befalls the sons of the earth. If men spit upon the ground, they spit upon themselves."
Blitz quote "And if there is no God, there would be no heaven or hell. And if there is no heaven or hell, why be good in the first place? Why be good? Why not be evil, if nobody will punish you anyway?"
I do not believe in a fire & brimstone place where the damned are forever tormented called Hell. If anything hell is on earth and the vile, evil and atrocious things that we do to each other that is hell. All the suffering, wars, pestilence, poverty and slavery is hell that we unleash upon ourselves.
Whatever divine spark that is within us to live our lives to love one another and make some semblance of order to the chaos, is that God? I do not know. To protect and honour the weak, I just believe that is what is right. Am I trying to 'buy' my way into Heaven by doing good deeds? No. Heaven for me isn't some lofty celestial palace with flying angels & the pearly gates perched upon the clouds. Heaven is in the laughter of my nieces and nephews. Heaven is in the arms of a loved one. Heaven is the pure and simple joy of my silly dog running around in total abandonment. Heaven is a moment however fleeting when you are at Peace within you and the stillness and beauty 'stirs your soul'. When everything is nothing and, nothing is everything.
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Post by BulgarianMenace on Jan 27, 2010 16:20:56 GMT -5
You don't need god or the threat of hell/promise of heaven to be compelled to do good. Some people believe that humans are basically good. I don't, but we do have a biological reason for doing "good" which is that humans live in groups and what helps the group survive helps the individual, and what hurts the group hurts the individuals chance of survival. As our ancestors developed they began with unwritten codes of conduct that were later written as language and writing developed, and now we have the more refined version of that which we call the legal system. People still try to bad things, but they're more restrained by the legal system than they are by any imaginary being threatening to send them to non-existent places. It's not perfect, but I bet you a heck of a lot more crime is prevented by cops than by priests.
Just because it is easy to believe in god doesn't mean one should.
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Post by Blitzkrieg Boys on Jan 27, 2010 16:32:56 GMT -5
It is actually harder to believe in God than to not, because to actually BELIEVE in God is to know, love and serve him. I didn't want to get into it, but being a Christian is probably one of the hardest roads to follow. There are the 10 Comamndments, moral virtues, Holy days of Obligation, strict up-bringings, saying the rosary and other rules. Of course, it is not as strict as other religions such as Islam or Judaism, but Catholocism is a VERY hard and strict road to follow. Deep in everyone's heart, however, they know God is real. How you choose to accept that (or deny that) is up to you.
From what I can tell, though, this community is pretty kind, religion or no religion. Like I said before, though, I do NOT mean to offend someone by speaking my mind. This is filed under the "debate" section, so I figured I'd give debating a whirl. Don't think I'm trying to impoe my beliefs upon you. If so, I apologize.
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Post by BulgarianMenace on Jan 27, 2010 16:42:27 GMT -5
On the contrary. It is MUCH easier to believe in god than to accept that he doesn't exist, because the latter means that you have to come to grips with the fact that this is it, there is nothing else after this life, that life is unfair and a lot of it sucks and it's not a test or whatever religions say to explain suffering, it just is what it is, and that shit won't just happen and you have take control of things in your life that you may have left up to god. Meanwhile believing in god is choosing the path of ignorance, and there is nothing easier. Also, if you don't believe in god you have to take responsibility for what happens in your life, while if you do believe you can find some sort of false comfort in thinking that it's "god's will."
10 commandments, moral virtues, and strict upbringing are not exclusive to christians (or any religion). You could easily not be religious and still have all those things (you may not call them the 10 commandments but, taking away the bullshit ones about god specifically, everyone knows not to steal or kill or commit adultery). All the rest of it is trivial, meaningless things (holy days, rosary, etc.).
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Post by hanzrimer on Jan 27, 2010 17:01:53 GMT -5
Here's how I see it: I go to Church. I am a Roman Catholic. I believe in the Bible. HOWEVER, this is simply my opinion. I'm not like most other religious people because I won't go onto forums quoting Scripture. It all depends on what the person personally believes. (don't think I'm forcing my opinions on anybody. If you do I'm sorry if you mis-understand me. Just saying my personal opinion) People often say there is no God, but I always ask them, how would the earth be formed then, if there was no God? Sure, you can say the big bang, but where did the very molecules of the big bang come from? People can go around in circles, but they will quickly run out of answers. All you have to say is, "God made that". Even if God wasn't real, how hard is it really to follow what he wants? Sure, there are a lot of rules you should follow, but even the people who aren't religious it is easy for. All you have to do is sacrifice an hour every Sunday for Church, and make sure you treat others with kindness, which you should do already. If you REALLY believe in God, there is a LOAD of things that are difficult, yet you still have to follow. But just start with the basics... DON'T BE A JERK. The rest is gravy On lets presume god made the Earth, who made all the other countless other planets? Seems illogical that god would make all those other useless planets and stars. Unless of course you don't believe those are other planets and stars and just magical lights god made. Also let me point out I agree with everything BM has said so far, maybe god does exist?
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Post by [ROJOES]ronjons on Jan 27, 2010 17:30:15 GMT -5
" God or Bible 'Which would you believe in more?' " God = 1st cause, starts time & space does little else since. scores 1 beliefometer point. Bible = a tangible book, and a collection of poetry & stories where readers can draw their own meanings.Bible scores 1.5 beliefometer points. the winner by half a point, the bible. For my next feat I'm flying off to cure cancer, ciao ciao bambini.
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Post by hanzrimer on Jan 27, 2010 17:39:01 GMT -5
POWDERED TOAST MANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
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Post by Blitzkrieg Boys on Jan 27, 2010 17:49:31 GMT -5
That's cool, Hanz, to each his own. I'm just saying that the very instinct of man from his inner feelings and conscience needs to know that there is someone out there who created him, gave him a purpose, and sent him into the world as a test. If you do not think there is a creator, again I say, you can run around in circles thinking of new ways to explain something, when God can be the easiest explination.
Also, all other planets were created for the specific cause of showing His power, but also to simply keep us wondering about things. Man's ability to choose his beliefs and think about things, even though he can never understand them, are what makes him human. The three chief qualities of man are free will, understanding, and a conscience, which comes in handy whether you believe in God or not.
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Post by [ROJOES]ronjons on Jan 27, 2010 17:59:11 GMT -5
well spotted hanz, might be hard to spot God but powdered toastman's unmissable.
good point blitz about a person's tendency to ask 'what caused that and what was the cause beyond that?'.
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Post by BulgarianMenace on Jan 27, 2010 18:32:56 GMT -5
well what caused god? Your answer would be that nothing came before god. So take god out of the equation, you could just as easily have some sort of force or entity that isn't sentient, that doesn't reflect "god" as we imagine him, that could have existed. Like the giant atom in the big bang.
Allso, just because god is an easy answer doesn't mean he's the right answer. In fact, history has shown time and time again that for many questions to which people like you simply said, well we don't know so let's say it's god, god was NOT the answer.
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Post by Blitzkrieg Boys on Jan 27, 2010 18:46:15 GMT -5
Exactly Ronjons.
Sorry Red, didn't see your post. Yeah I know what you're saying. Being good isn't exclusively for Christians. Also, I know what you are saying, but believe me, heaven and hell are more than we can even imagine. Hell is our worst fears manifested. If you fear someone dying, that happens. If you fear cancer, that happens. I will not go any further, just imagine your worst fears and phobias being recognized and manifested in reality (don't really picture it though, it's horrifying). As for heaven, well you're right. Nobody would want to go to heaven if you just fly around pearly gates with wings. But picture what you just said. Imagine your whole family, along with friends and whatever makes you happy (as long as it is not evil, like murder). No death, no sickness, no despair, no darkness, no hate. That is a lofty thing to strive for. Whether you believe in God or not, if you lead a good life, I promise that is what's waiting for you. I know you can't take my word for it, but don't say I didn't tell you.
A few lines from a song I heard by ATCQ appeals to people who question God. One singer is Muslim, the other Buddhist, the other Christian. They all have different beliefs, yet agree there is a God. Listen up:
And I be needing something To feed my logical taste At the end of the race is there a paradise place? Yo, we can't get involved in what the next man is doing Material gain we put too much in persuing
Now listen to this verse Let's concentrate on our spiritual plate. Recognize your existence in this vast blue space From a tiny cloud of blood To the human beings with taste, sight, touch, smell and sound Let's deem it profound!
"If God is so good why does shit be happening to me?" There's divinity within because we come from the divine A froce that's not seen But you feel it every time When the wind blows, and the world turns, and the rain drops, and the baby cries and the bird flies, and the ground quake, and the stars gleam So many things are evident of its existence What we need to do is link it with persistence Once we recognize that, we can move ahead
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Post by Blitzkrieg Boys on Jan 27, 2010 19:00:48 GMT -5
Bm, I know you won't like this, but God was never created, due to the fact that He is not a physical being. He is simply a spirit, having no physical form. He created time and space, so he was there from the beginning of everything. I know people are currently posting something like, "This kid doesn't know anything" but you have to see... if God was created, WHAT CREATED HIM?!?! And then what created that? The chain has to stop somewhere, and when it does the only thing we can assume is that God was at the beginning. At least he is a living creature, unlike the big bang theory, in which molecules, that had no life or emoions, were just made like that. Time, space, atoms, thoughts... man will never know where any of these came from till the afterlife. God will reveal all, but that is what faith does. It gives you the strength to say, "I know God is real". All you and I need to know is that God always was, always is, and always will be...
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