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Post by NexsusX (Fury) on Jan 14, 2010 18:01:02 GMT -5
most people here will probably say democracy but ill just say O: a fine example of "the Allegory of the Cave"
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Post by BulgarianMenace on Jan 14, 2010 20:27:39 GMT -5
most people here will probably say democracy (capitalism) democracy and capitalism are not the same thing Democracy is a form of government. Capitalism is an economic system.
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Post by NexsusX (Fury) on Jan 14, 2010 22:37:52 GMT -5
ill reword the contents of the post i should have posted Forms of economic systems as well which i will do unless you want to head of the topic
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Post by czrk147 on Jan 18, 2010 11:34:32 GMT -5
depends on how where you live has its history go, like the us did not enjoy being governed by a king, russians didnt like the corruption of the czar, and mao zedong got people to believe in his communist regime. democracy works in the united states, but not in russia. it really comes down to the people, religion, and place of the nation and how it regulates their citizens. the us has a large imigration policy so its a free market, and so forth.
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Post by fleurdelis on Jan 19, 2010 12:13:04 GMT -5
Plato disapproved of democracy and felt that ordinary citizens were inadequate to rule. He felt that only a true philosopher king (or philosopher-kings) is fit to rule. The Allegory of the Cave is mainly about illusions versus truth. It takes a dim view on of the knowledge of the human species as a whole but it implies that the enlightened and just individuals are possible. The philosopher is freed from the cave and is able to distinguish between reality and illusion. It is the duty of the philosopher to return to the cave, but not to rule, not to become a seeker after power, but to turn as far as possible, his fellows to the light, to break the chains of illusion that bind them. The true philosopher will not remain separate from public life yet he will not join the game of power. His public activity will be to break the bonds that imprison his fellow citizens. Anyways, for me, the best type of government is democracy, no alternative has provided to be better. And like czrk147 said it depends on the country, people and region for a political system to work. But democracy can work in those other nations, I just think its a matter of time.
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Post by Willf_28 on Jan 19, 2010 13:12:21 GMT -5
Antartica has the best government...
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Post by redwurd on Jan 19, 2010 14:42:11 GMT -5
yes if only the powers that be, were true philosopher kings, we would truly be living in a Utopian society....... sigh, we are flawed; full of vice and desires that we all need to wrestle with. There is no perfect form of government, but democracy is the lesser of all the evils out there, and for the most part does work. The opposition party(s) duty as well as its citizens is to question and keep the government honest.
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Post by yash3ahuja on Jan 19, 2010 20:20:14 GMT -5
Yep, humans are incredibly flawed. Driven by our own greed, our society will never become what we seek to make it. For example, look at any economy. You suceed by bringing the downfall of others. Is that truly peaceful? This accounts for so many other things, it's uncountable. I guess it is part of human nature to compete, but it ruins us as a society.
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Post by NexsusX (Fury) on Jan 21, 2010 11:54:19 GMT -5
Plato disapproved of democracy and felt that ordinary citizens were inadequate to rule. He felt that only a true philosopher king (or philosopher-kings) is fit to rule. The Allegory of the Cave is mainly about illusions versus truth. It takes a dim view on of the knowledge of the human species as a whole but it implies that the enlightened and just individuals are possible. The philosopher is freed from the cave and is able to distinguish between reality and illusion. It is the duty of the philosopher to return to the cave, but not to rule, not to become a seeker after power, but to turn as far as possible, his fellows to the light, to break the chains of illusion that bind them. The true philosopher will not remain separate from public life yet he will not join the game of power. His public activity will be to break the bonds that imprison his fellow citizens. Anyways, for me, the best type of government is democracy, no alternative has provided to be better. And like czrk147 said it depends on the country, people and region for a political system to work. But democracy can work in those other nations, I just think its a matter of time. fleur have you experienced any other form government than democracy? Can you truthfully say democracy is the best form and way without living through them all . There are many interpretations on the allegory, though the one I'm trying to display is that of the shadow imagery being displayed as democracy (as an example) and the person who leaves and goes to wards the light gets to find something different that benefits them better than what they had at the time . If people are only shown that the type of government they live in is the best (through censorship, bandwagon jumping etc) how can they give an honest opinion about it. I by no means am a hater of democracy or any type of government for the simple fact that I haven't been able to live through it. If anything the only thing I can give an opinion about is democracy. People put to much trust onto their elected representatives and figures of power. But like you said "Plato disapproved of democracy and felt that ordinary citizens were inadequate to rule." which can be implied today just cause of the fact that more people probably care about who is the next American idol rather than diplomatic relations with different countries.
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Post by NexsusX (Fury) on Jan 21, 2010 12:00:19 GMT -5
depends on how where you live has its history go, like the us did not enjoy being governed by a king, russians didnt like the corruption of the czar, and mao zedong got people to believe in his communist regime. democracy works in the united states, but not in russia. it really comes down to the people, religion, and place of the nation and how it regulates their citizens. the us has a large imigration policy so its a free market, and so forth. I wouldnt say that without info cause that wasnt the only reason xD. Some people also wanted to make washington King of the US (lol king george the 1st) what you say is true though I was having a debate about Cuba and bringing democracy to the country. It would prove to be difficult just cause the mindset of the people are used to a dictatorship. It would take either a rapid revolution or several decades for people to be able to accept it .
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Post by NexsusX (Fury) on Jan 21, 2010 12:01:48 GMT -5
Antartica has the best government... lol pengiun government
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Post by BulgarianMenace on Jan 21, 2010 12:53:35 GMT -5
jesus nexsus, learn to use the edit button.
Also, the allegory of the cave is about how we don't know if what we think is real is actually real, and that we're so limited by what we think we know that even if someone saw the "real" world and came back to tell us about it we wouldn't be able to understand and see it for ourselves.
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Post by czrk147 on Jan 21, 2010 21:56:29 GMT -5
antartica hates me... facebook said so. but George Washington (thankfully) was not greedy like his officers that told him to become a king. "I did not rebel against King George IX? to become George I" Something like that he said. most people now resort to radicalism and terrorism to get their way, and if you look at it from a different perspective, theyre just big babies trying to get their own way(by hurting themselves and others). BM, what you just explained is trying to tell a blind man color. i follow the Bible and i am for republics; not just the Republican party, but actual republics.
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Post by yash3ahuja on Jan 21, 2010 23:21:39 GMT -5
"Orange, has an orangish color and tinge" XD
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Post by NexsusX (Fury) on Jan 26, 2010 11:07:55 GMT -5
jesus nexsus, learn to use the edit button. Also, the allegory of the cave is about how we don't know if what we think is real is actually real, and that we're so limited by what we think we know that even if someone saw the "real" world and came back to tell us about it we wouldn't be able to understand and see it for ourselves. Remember what allegory means, all I am doing is applying government to this story and not trying to change its meaning if thats what you were getting at. Read From Socrates to Sartre: The Philosophic Quest and maybe you will understand where I'm coming from. Id explain it myself but I tend to explain things abstractly which is sometimes difficult to understand. It tends to be annoying when people dogmatically follow a set or sets of ideals when they haven't experienced life or gathered some sort of evidence to support what they believe. (which i think you understand quite well xD) Thank you for saying that czrk147 cause now I will start the next debate with that statement
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